Pre-War HoFer Gloves

[Mr. Mitt]

Picking up where Jonathan left off on his "Glove of the Month" post, why isn't there the demand there used to be for gloves endorsed by pre-war HoFers? Back when I began collecting, this was the focus for most in the hobby. Guys would not hesitate to snatch up a great conditioned Frisch, a one of a kind Ken-Wel Roush or an elusive Bancroft (even if it is listed at 3x the recent Legendary hammer price). What's changed?

I remember when heavy hitters like JM in California, BM in New York, RN in Virginia and JG in Texas used to butt heads on each and every pre-war HoFer (and box!) that came available. I made a trade once where I gave up a Crawford, Evers, Bancroft and I think Haines in return for an S&D Cobb and a D&M Alexander. There was once a time where these super tough to find, perhaps one of a kind, HoFers were on a level playing field with Cobb gloves. In the last Legendary auction, the exact same Crawford and Evers barely touched $750 each and the Bancroft couldn't get to $400! A significant shift in the market has occurred, we all know it, but no one has really addressed it.

Yes, the heavy hitters had their fun, completed their task of crossing off as many names on their list as possible and are either standing pat or began liquidating. Some sold piecemeal while some dumped supply into th market all at once. So, is it simply too much supply right now or lack of demand? A case can definitely be made for too much supply, but if there is also a lack of demand, why is that? Why aren't new collectors as enamored with Pre-War HoFers as they once were?

By all means, I'm guilty of this. I used to have a very large collection of pre-war HoFers and a decent amount of the recent Legendary offerings once passed through my collection. Is it simply that the game of musical chairs has stopped and there are no more chairs left? Personally, my focus has shifted. Like most of you, part of the thrill of this hobby is the hunt. When you complete your goal, or come very close to doing so before hitting a wall, a lot of the thrill disappears. A directional change needs to occur to keep things fesh. That's what happened to me with regards to pre-war HoFers. But that's a response from someone who's dabbled in pre-war HoFers. Why aren't the newbies venturing into that great challenge? To me, the best analogy is trying to complete the "monster". In reading other boards, it appears as if everyone, including oodles of new collectors, are gunning to complete the T-206 set. There is sizable demand there and going after pre-war HoFer endorsed gloves is very, very similar. What's your take?

[jpop43]

Jerry and I have chatted back and forth about this issue, and I do almost think of it as an “issue”…surely curious if nothing else. Like Jerry, my family started off on two very distinct collecting tracts, one of them being the pursuit of HoF endorsed gloves. Even with a relatively abundant supply back in the day, demand and value was high…oftentimes, very high. Over the past year or two I’ve been wondering where the interest and value in this area has gone...if you haven't noticed, its down significantly.

With the exception some absolute keepers (Ruth, Gehrig, Young, Johnson, Mathewson, Hornsby, Wagner, etc.), we’ve all but liquidated our entire HoF endorsed inventory. Granted, we’ve been at this a while and our tastes and interests have changed, but in parting with some extraordinary gloves like the Frisch I’ve noticed a real lack of excitement in HoF endorsed gloves, and endorsed material all together. Our decision to part with the HoF stuff was not wholly motivated by the proverbial “writing on the wall”, but watching the bottom drop out of this once primary area of collecting has been a factor.

I guess I am as curious as Jerry as to some of the reasons behind the shift in the collecting culture. I have noticed an awful lot of the newbies are just jumping right into the deep end of the glove pool and have wondered why HoF endorsed gloves is being overlooked even as more guys come into the hobby. As Jerry pointed out, one needn’t look any further than the recent Legendary auctions and the incredible HoF endorsed material to begin the head scratching….10-15 years ago there would have been an absolute feeding frenzy for that stuff and we’d be talking about those auctions for years to come.

So, a great discussion has been started and one in which truly everyone can weigh in one…who knows, maybe we’ll actually come up with some answers. Understanding the hobby is what is going to keep it healthy and strong long into the future.

[vintagebrett]

It's an interesting question and here are some thoughts that have run through my brain:

1) When the glove hobby first got rolling a lot of the collectors were transitioning from cards to gloves. Collecting HOF player cards has always been popular so maybe when finding gloves they drifted towards that specific area. Perhaps collectors joining the glove community now aren't transitioning from cards and don't have that mindset.

2) In the beginning was the Glove Collector newsletter and it was great. Many of the early stories, pictures and finds centered around HOF gloves. People who were reading the issues at the time had it ingrained in their head that these HOF gloves were valuable and collectable. No one had idea how rare anything was because eBay was still a few years away. Now people are finding the hobby through different conduits including this forum, JD's site, etc. - the focus is all over the place and not specific to one area. In the Glove(s) of the Month section there are many things highlighted and the emphasis isn't on HOF players.

3) There are too many Hall of Famers who aren't historically important in the grand scheme of things. Ruth, Gehrig, Cobb and few others are universally recognized and even people that aren't fans of the game are familiar with these names. Many of the guys however didn't have the same impact and perhaps newer collectors aren't familiar with them and don't care to be. There is always a debate whether the Hall of Fame is watered down - maybe a lack of interest in these players gloves is a by product of that.

4) Budget. I've been around the hobby for over 20 years now and I couldn't afford HOF gloves at their peak of popularity. I drifted towards things I could afford and enjoy at the same time. I'm sure others felt the same way and had similar budget constraints. Now they may pick up a HOF glove at the right price but they can be patient.

5) Everything is always changing - nothing stays in the same place for too long.

[vintagebrett]

Adding to my second point, the glove price guide had an influence at the time as well. People buying that saw the listed prices for HOF gloves and wanted them. Now that price guides have taken a back seat, maybe that's a reason for the prices to drop.

[murphusa]

I feel that the past 2 years have been one of the best buying oportunites ever. If you happen to have a few of the 98-99-00 Oregon Trail Auctions with sold list you will see there was some very high sales at that time which came back down after the "economy bump". As 2006-08 came into play the money was back into glove. While some went with the HOF'er, I went to near mint to mint everything in gloves and have kept it up to today. But we have hit another downturn but if you have a little nestegg you can still make out.

There has been huge bargins in the area of HOF'rs With Easter, I stumbled on the Frisch and came in second. Oh well.

Buy buy buy, is my motto these days

[gashouse_34]

I'm fairly new to glove collecting and Pre War HOF gloves are my primary focus....so there are still a few of us out there! I actually enjoy collecting those HOFers that are almost long forgotten compared to the Cobbs, Ruths, etc... I love the fact that the interest in HOF gloves have taken a downturn (but hope that overall interest in gloves continues to increase). I've been able to acquire some HOFers I thought I would never have a chance on due to budget constraints. I'm not sure why these gloves seem less popular while ball cards such as T-206 have increased in interest among collectors. There's something much more enjoyable about holding an old ball glove compared to a small peice of cardboard with a picture of a ballplayer that often doesn't even look like him. Just my 2 cents and plan to keep collecting pre war HOF gloves!

[murphusa]

Just in case you haven't been paying attention

http://www.ebay.com/itm/190665667867

[murphusa]

In reference to the S&D Mantle that is in another thread and if you look at these two gloves

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-1920s-Z ... 2c648e9fb0

the seller of the Cobb knew what to do.Start the auction at a decent price ($99.00) and let it fly.