Goldsmith Question

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Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 28th, 2011, 1:21 pm

Hi Everyone!

I was antique shopping with my wife yesterday and ran across a glove that seemed reasonably priced. I figured that it isn't going anywhere, so I decided to price it out before I buy.

It's an unendorsed Goldsmith model "RF 47"

I looked in Joe Phillips' price guide and catalog sourcebook but couldn't find anything.

It's a RHT split-finger with attached web between thumb and index. It appears to be white or very light tan color. Overall condition is very good, leather is still supple, but it has a couple of rips in the lining. I didn't get a chance t really pore over it, the lady was a bit annoyed that she had to take it out of the case for me. Likewise I didn't get a chance to take photos or even write down everything printed on the palm. Printing was very clear however.

Like I said, it seemed reasonably priced at $32, but that's a bit more than I like to pay for "garage-sale" finds. If you've got any info on this model, please reply or PM me.

Thanks,

-BRAH
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby murphusa » May 28th, 2011, 1:44 pm

will you do me a favor and go back and buy it for me? I give you an extra $10.00

does it look something like this but White leather
Attachments
Syl%20Johnson%20Goldsmith%20RFG4%20Front%20Josh_150_cw150_ch129_thumb.jpg
Syl%20Johnson%20Goldsmith%20RFG4%20Front%20Josh_150_cw150_ch129_thumb.jpg (5.14 KiB) Viewed 4403 times
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby vintagebrett » May 28th, 2011, 1:57 pm

If it's something you'd like for your collection, I'd buy it. If it's something you'd sell, $32 isn't a huge gamble and you may make a few bucks.
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 29th, 2011, 3:15 am

Murph, The web is not a laced-in tunnel style. It's actually more like a sideways "H" shaped piece of leather sewn into the index and thumb seams. The smooth side of which is at the back and the flesh-side is at the palm. I don't recall the exact layout of the palm seams, but I think that the thumb seam was more outbound. I also seem to remember that the wrist grommets were very small and somewhat close together.

Brett, I agree that I'd probably come out a winner whether I keep it or sell it. I''m kinda' looking for a project glove and seeing as how I've never restored a white glove, I don't want to ruin any potential value it might have. I should go ahead and buy it and post photos. I was hoping that someone would know something. I've already got half a dozen nice gloves that are worth less than the cost of a set of new laces; I don't really need another. Even if I buy it and turn around and sell for $10 or $20 more, is it really worth the time? However, if it was worth >$75-ish, I'd probably keep it to restore and then add it to my collection.
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 30th, 2011, 10:27 pm

Picked it up today. My recollection of it was clearly incorrect. Also I found an endorsement. Unfortunately it only a partial, but maybe someone can take a stab at it.

The palm of the glove reads:

(in cursive) _er(?) Johnson
MODEL
Regular Fellers
REG. U.S. PAT. OFF.
A
GoldSmith
(in cursive) Product
RF 47
GENUINE HORSEHIDE

There is additional stamping on the thumb:
SPIDER WEB

I looked in the pocket price guide and found seven "Johnsons" none ending in "er"
Bill
Bob
Dave
Deron
Don
Roy
Si

Anyone want to take a guess at the year and/or endorsement of this glove?

Additional info:
Measures about 9.5 inches from tip of thumb to the outside edge of the palm.
Lacing at wrist is cotton
Edge binding is black fabric
Lining is intact and supple with slight delamination between the thumb and index and a split seam at the pinkie edge.
Padding is mostly intact, but missing on the index and some of the middle finger.
Padding is not felt, but rather a layer of coarse fibers (perhaps horsehair?) bound to a piece of burlap.
Webbing is a piece of leather sewn into the seams of index and thumb with suede side toward the back of the hand.

In an effort to clarify the endorsement, I shot a few photos using an IR camera they are the B/W photos below.

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image

Image
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby murphusa » May 30th, 2011, 10:48 pm

It's a Walter Johnson model. Nice pickup I'll still give you the extra 10 for it :lol:
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby vintagebrett » May 31st, 2011, 6:41 am

Definitely Walter - have seen a similar model Goldsmith a couple times. The Reg'lar Fellers stamping explains the weird model number. Maybe it was a giveaway or premium from the radio show.
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby Mr. Mitt » May 31st, 2011, 7:31 am

Concur, Walter Johnson. I had one of these models once, spider-web, non-leather piping, smallish in size... most likely a children's model, but a Johnson nonetheless! Good pickup at a nice price.
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 31st, 2011, 12:37 pm

Thanks a bunch for the replies!

Walter Johnson it is then.

The Catalog Source Book shows a Goldsmith Walter Johnson G5 for 1936. Which I find a bit perplexing. The "spider web" is essentially a wider 1910s to 1920s sewn-in web (OK, it 's a bit wider and has cutouts). I would assume that it is from the same era? That would seem to fit because Johnson played from 1907 to 1927, but I know that glove companies used to sell player-endorsed models long after the players retired.

So my best guess is 1917 - 1935. Any thoughts?

-BRAH
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 31st, 2011, 12:42 pm

Oh, another thing.

How much is it going to kill the value of this thing if I replace the padding in the fingers? I doubt I'll be able to get original padding so I'll most likely use modern wool felt.

-BRAH
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby Mr. Mitt » May 31st, 2011, 1:42 pm

Definitely a post-career model. Even though it's a sewn-web and somewhat similar to an earlier one-inch, manufactures sometimes maintained prior glove styles in their children's lines. Small full-webs were made well into the 20's even though the pattern was replaced by one-inch webs in the professional line. Similarly, child crescents were produced through roughly 1910 despite professional models of the era losing exterior padding. Sure, it's worth less than a top of the line Johnson endorsed glove from his playing days, but it's still a Johnson that even a long tenured glove collector would have snatched up at the great price you found it for!
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby murphusa » May 31st, 2011, 1:47 pm

my $42.00 offer is still on the table
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby bbrah » May 31st, 2011, 2:53 pm

murphusa wrote:my $42.00 offer is still on the table


Thanks murph. I'll consider it.

I just started the cleaning process. Otherwise, I think I'm going to leave this one as-is. I'll post the "after" shots as soon as I'm done.

I appreciate the input everyone provided.

-BRAH
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby mikesglove » May 31st, 2011, 3:47 pm

I've seen a "Christy Mathewson" spider web model also. My take on it also was of a lower end child's model featuring various famous players. The regular endorsed models of these players from the catalog are more collectible but I have seen the spider web gloves fetch $400+ depending on condition.
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Re: Goldsmith Question

Postby stockbuddy » May 31st, 2011, 5:08 pm

Hi bbrah,

It looks like the guys on the thread have covered your spider web in detail. Great catch. The only thing that I might add is that web most likely was a die cut web or stamped out. During the years these old gloves were made there were various web styles the glove manufactures made for youth gloves. I like the various youth gloves and the funky webs they came up with.

Glad you found a cool one and with a great endorsement.
Dave
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