What constitutes a fake/knockoff?

[rmiller]

Please forgive the ignorance guys, but I am trying to educate myself. If there has already been in-depth discussion on here regarding this (I couldn’t find it), please pass along the link and I’ll read through it. (but for the record, I did look)

When the discussion goes on here about gloves being fake-I’m trying to figure out exactly what that means. Does that mean that the leather is lesser quality, where the glove is made, what?

Are there some dead giveaways? What do you look for to know if a glove is not genuine? I feel like a real dummie for asking this, but ...oh well.
Thanks guys.

[awarsoca]

for Wilson A2000, if it says Korea, its a complete fake. Not made by Wilson, not A2000 quality leather, not worth your money (c:
other than that I would like to learn more myself

[rmiller]

yeah it was actually the A2000 XL I posted the other day that I was suspicious about, and Mike_2007 confirmed the "Korea" thing for me.

So I went out in the garage and got an RSG 8 Reggie Jackson I have been wanting to work on for a while, and it has "made in Korea" stamped on the leather, and I thought, "oh crap, another one!" I mean, these are gloves I've picked up for a buck or two at yard sales, and things, so no big deal, I guess. But, how do I know what's fake and what's not?

Man, I have a lot to learn!

[dapert]

If you're ever in the market for an older A3000 watch for the same thing as the A2000. There are two on eBay right now that appear to be fakes. You can see the Korea on one of them and the other just doesn't look the way an older A3000 looks.

[wjr953]

Having encountered a couple of fake A2000's, I can offer you some personal insight. awarsoca was correct in stating that if Korea is listed on a Wilson A2000 glove anywhere, then it's a knockoff. This I have confirmed myself with a representative from Wilson sporting goods. A2000's have never, ever been manufactured in Korea, period. Also on counterfeits, the printing on the inner pocket is often misspelled, the color of the glove is off, either too reddish or too "blonde". If you get one in your hands, you'll know it right away. The leather isn't awful in quality, but it's just very, very light in weight. When you pick up a real A2000, you know it is made from quality leather, you can feel it on your hand, the construction of the glove is solid all the way around and it's quite obvious. Another way that sellers on eBay try to trick you is by not picturing the areas of the glove that say "Korea" on them. Unethical sellers may also put a glove up on eBay for an inordinately low price as a "Buy it Now" auction, and then offer nothing as a return policy. In other words, you jump on the "Buy it Now", thinking that you've just got the deal of the century and then you end up being stuck with it because the seller won't refund your money. eBay is absolutely useless in helping buyers, because a) they're basically invisible (try calling them!!), and b) the only thing that they care about is making money. If helping an unhappy buyer doesn't serve eBay's financial interests in some way, then they have -0- interest. As the old expression goes, if it's too good to be true, then it usually is. It's important to remember that A2000's rarely, if ever go for less than $100 if they're in good shape in an eBay auction. There are several ways to protect yourself against bogus gloves: 1) ask the seller lots of questions, 2) get as many pictures of the glove in question as you can, from the seller, 3) try to avoid the trap of a "Buy it Now" auction at an obscenely low price, 4) try to avoid sellers that don't offer a return policy, 5) if you're not 100 percent sure, let it go. It's better than getting stiffed and having no way to get your $$ back. If a seller's reputable, then in most cases they will offer a return policy. If they don't, then it's possible that they may be trying to hide something. Beyond that, it's basically Caveat Emptor, "let the buyer beware". Nobody gives away high-end value gloves for next to nothing. If the glove has value, the seller knows that and they will not just give it away. FYI, just so there's no confusion, all of my comments here refer specifically to the Wilson A2000, and only the Wilson A2000. Sorry if this post caused any confusion.

Hope that this helps,

br

[awarsoca]

Randal,
I beleive there were some Rawlings manufactured in korea. I'm not positive though.
Clint

[docglov]

yes we made many gloves in Korea and I've not seen many if any knock offs of our gloves
Doc of Rawlings

[candlestick]

yes, there has been an indepth discussion regarding fake wilson a2000's. i looked for it and cannot find it. i believe it came after this post...
http://www.vintagebaseballgloveforum.co ... ounterfeit apologies in advance if i am dredging up bad memories for those involved.

regarding spotting the fakes it helps if you have felt/handled some of the originals and know your way around a rawlings glove. in general they look like a hybrid between a wilson and a rawlings, with the wilson name but rawlings features. made in korea or just korea as a county of origin is prominent, as are many rawlings features, 'educated heel', 'fastback', the finger holdster, often a cross weave web (which i dont think a2000's ever had), etc., right down to the appropriate wilson or rawlings script. the wilson logo appears in the palm and the glove type 'a2000 xl' or 'a2000 xlo'. note that the lacing is typically sown right through a single piece of leather for the web and often the colors do not look correct, too light or mismatched in different portions of the glove.

if you were not aware of it the forum members have decided to give ebay sellers the benefit of the doubt. that is, if the glove is being described as an original a2000 contact the seller and explain why it is likely counterfeit. once you get a reply then post here. i would like to believe that most sellers are willing to be educated, and that as forum members we are an excellent source of knowledge with a bit of tact. i have seen numerous sellers end the sale early or alter their description after being contacted by one of the forum members.

[Hrking4675]

Also may of these fakes from Korea have Rawlings stamps on them like "hinged pad," "finest in the field," "for the professional player," ect.

[rmiller]

The RSG 8 I am working on has "The finnest in the field" on it, and a round "Made in Korea" on the outside. I will try to finish it up tonight and post some pictures.

[Hrking4675]

No I mean Wilson A2000 Fakes will have rawlings stamps on them, but wilson patches ect.

[rmiller]

oh ok- I got it now. I misunderstood. Very good info everyone- thank you.

[dapert]

Will the round W patch always say USA in it? How about if it only has the W?

[Cowboy7130]

First, my personal disclaimer: I don't own any Wilson A2000 gloves, though I have several "lesser" Wilson gloves, such as my trusty A2124 George Brett. However, I WANT every Wilson A2000 I see, and I study them like an art historian studies a beautiful painting, saying to himself, "Someday I am going to own one of those masterpieces." So, having made my admission ...

Wilson made and continues to make (I think ) A2000 gloves in Japan. Some of the best gloves ever made in fact, are Wilsons made in Japan. And, I believe the round "W" patch is used on many of the company's best gloves, wherever they are made.

I know that A2000's were never made in Korea, and I don't believe ANY Wilsons were made in Korea. I THINK in the discussion previously referenced that some research by one of our fellows led to a Wilson authority who ascertained that no genuine Wilson was ever made in Korea. I remember being disheartened by that because I had recently purchased a cheapie softball model in mint condition and when it got here it had Korea boldly stamped on the pinky. I thought I had got a good deal. Turns out, I got a cheap deal on what I now believe is a knockoff of a Wilson Force 1. The leather is pretty and smooth, but it feels thin, and the glove squeaks around the break points when I close it. Oh, well ... now it sits on my dresser and it is my keys and wallet caddy!

In my limited experience as a collector and observer of the glove collecting community on the internet, the 1960's - 1990's Wilson A2000's were and are the most common fakes out there. That is not to say there are no fake Rawlings or Nokonas, or Eastons. I have just seen enough pics of fake A2000's to be suspicious of some tell-tale signs. If it looks like a Rawlings RBG36, then it is not a Wilson. If it says Korea, it is not a Wilson. If the leather looks too shiny, like a new kids' glove, then I would be very doubtful about the glove being a genuine Wilson. Or a quality glove from any reputable manufacturer, for that matter. Good leather does not "shine," even after a good conditioning. It glows!

And, in my limited experience, I haven't seen any Made in USA A2000's that looked like bogus gloves to me. I think the Made in USA A2000's would be the most difficult to fake and pass off as genuine.

anyway, just my two cents worth.

[candlestick]

if i remember correctly Fran at wilson said that wilson never made a2000s in korea. that would mean that other glove types were made korea. short story if it says a2000 and korea as a place of manufacture then it is counterfeit.