Exxon Valdez 2 and a few more oil spills added

[docglov]

b.s.
cordovan is horse hide .Haven't used that leather since world war II in gloves , would cost 600 dollars
Might be cordovan colored made for the Phillipines. Or a sample for someone. but Pro1000bf Pattern (designed by me about 86) is a is not a good pattern for samples hard to build a back that will narrow down to your wrist on what is a wide infield pattern. But good sales pitch any way

[fuzzydogg22]

nice call doc

[eleet18]

I have a PRO-12TCOT that has leather similar to what you are desrcibing. I remember seeing a picture of the Pro1000-3BFOT when I ordered my glove. It does appear to me however, that the owner of the Pro1000-3BFOT did use some additional oil product as the color is very uneven throughout and much more glistening than mine. Of course the same leather product will vary a bit from glove to glove. The actual color of my 12TCOT is somewhere in the middle of the two photos. It's definitely Horween leather as it was very stiff when I received it.

[Musashi]

I'm a little hesitant to believe that a modern glove would be made entirely out of shell cordovan leather. First of all, "cordovan leather" refers to a very specific type of leather - horsehide, in fact. Second, cordovan leather would make a poor choice as a baseball glove material for a few reasons: 1) it's as tough and heavy as 1" armor plate; 2) it takes forever to break in; and 3) it's outrageously expensive.

Though I'm aware that some old gloves were made of horsehide, the patterns were relatively simple - like the Gehrig buckleback. The thickness of horsehide (Horween horsehide in particular) would make it extremely difficult or even impossible to make into an intricate modern glove design.

The other thing would be usability - a baseball glove where the palm and the back were made of shell cordovan would be stiff and heavy enough to be almost unusable. I have a 5-year-old jacket made of a single layer of shell cordovan that I wear religiously every fall and winter to try and break it in (I've even ironed it, and left it out for a few days days in the 100+ degree Las Vegas sun), and it's still stiff enough to stand on its own without a hanger - see below (and no, there's nothing inside the jacket).

The last thing would be the price - as you might know, not only is horsehide scarce (the legend is that horsehide can come only from animals that have died a natural death), but that Horween is the only company in the US (and one of very few worldwide) that even process horsehide. Shoes made of cordovan routinely sell for over $500, and prices over $1000 are not unheard of. I'd imagine that a virtually unique, handmade glove made of cordovan would easily fetch upwards of $1000...

[eleet18]

I paid around $160 for my 12TCOT about 9-10 years ago so whatever the grade of leather or tanning process that was used couldn't have been much more expensive than the standard Horween. It definetly has a different feel than any other standard Horween or oil treated model I've had. It feels like it has a thin outer shell to it...a quality that has lessend over time. Hmmm...if they used actual Cordovan, wouldn't it have made sense for them to promote it as such instead of just saying that it is oil tanned?

[offsidewing]

You can almost make out the BLACK HORSE code in the picture with the blue background.

[docglov]

actually memory being what it is and all, I really believe the top dark 12 tc is hoh from Guttman tannerey we used it at time, very stiff broke in and wore nice

[eleet18]

Sounds reasonable. How did the Guttman Leather differ from Horween?

[docglov]

well first the tannery was across the street from Horween ha. they are gone now. we have certain QC test that everyones leather must meet with HOH being the toughest The leather has to have a certian amount of stretch measured in pull pounds then you cut and try to tear , that to is read in psi. if you don't a certain amount of stretch then it is easy to tear at the finger crotch area also has what they call temper which we have a special guage to read ( not 100% sold on this one but what the heck) HOH leather really has to be top line. test tomorrow
glove making 106
Doc.

[eleet18]

Thanks...informative. Was there a difference between the models labled "Oil Tanned" vs. those labled "Oil Treated?"

[Hrking4675]

rawcreations a few questions....

Are you selling that glove or know the seller?

Also, if that is some rare leather (yes I know Doc already nailed it) why does it have the oil tanned stamp, admittedly was oiled by the owner, and you can see the over oiling on the laces near that hinge.

Another thing... the model # you give is completely wrong. Back then it would have been a PRO1000BFOT. The 3 is not necessary. The 3 indicates Basket Web ans so does the "B" In the model number. By todays standards and then, a PRO1000-3BFOT as you say would mean a PRO1000 pattern, 3 (basket web) in black "B" Oil Tanned Fastback "F" "OT" leather if Rawlings even notates OT any more for an oil tanned glove.

That is clearly one of the pre eastbay flag patch OT models and I dont know how you can try and call that a special horsehide edition.

Sorry if this seems a little brash, but all of these fake gloves and sellers advertising gloves completely wrong has gotten to me.

[Musashi]

If you zoom in on the picture, you can barely make out the blackhorse code. It's a little fuzzy, but I read it as HSB01.

[eleet18]

That's what I see too, but wouldn't that make the month 91 or do I not understand the coding system correctly? Maybe it's HEB01 or HBB01.

[rawcreations]

Hi...the guy who owns this glove is my neighboor, he's so upset that he wanted to throw this glove in the trash, ya know he's a very simple and fun person to be around, a craftmen of leather gloves like I've never seen before, he's done this for fifty years, and yes he still has his first glove a 3 finger Nokona. So, here's the story: Johnny brought this glove on EBay from a member of this forum, it look like a nice glove..he wanted a glove for one of his 16 grand children, always looking for a deal.. he bought this one and 2 other Nokona AMG 600's. Well, he tried, he's not a collector, he's a repairmen...he has some nice ones that he keeps, but will give em away at the local HS and LL park near by. Always buying for someone else. The guy who first owned it is in your forum of great and talented individuals who ripped him off, sold him a bag of junk, that he turned around and made a great present for some little guy to play the game, yesterday he bought $35 worth of laces...I think they are from Wilson, the oiled up laces did not do it for him, he put it on EBay to get rid of it. He cleaned and he cleaned, with the NEW laces from Wilson, the glove is and has always been very hard to close, you could use it for a wheel chock. One thing of interest are the orignal pics of the glove, not the ones on ad indicated..the orignal ones, the back ground is the same on a few gloves shown on this site, seems like trash keeps floating around and the same people trash the new owner for selling the junk that was bought from members of this site, but sold on EBAY. I gave him the $90 bucks he paid for it, he thought it was a great glove to play for his 12 yr old GS. He's made call's to Nokona and Rawlings, talk..talk and talk some more, I hate for it to be obsession with him, so now am the new Owner of the garbage sold from the members of this site..yup, yup..I've got names. I guess if you're going to sell garbage you should change the back ground and be a bit more honest as to the condition and value of the product. Have you checked his Feed Back on EBAY ( crzrnvlb). I've taken some NEW pictures of the glove..it's mine now, but don't know how to upload pics to this site...with the new thick laces, it's a beauty, just hard as hell to use, you have to have a small hand and it better be strong..cause this thick leather and new laces is going to be a chore, I could care less what the leather is called, it tough, thick and solid. So there you have it, look around your circle of friends, the people you have next to you are the ones who have sold this glove..and the member before him, what will it be next. I am a johnny too, am a new collector, this is my first glove...who messed this professional glove..is it really professional?? come on now fess up, you sold this glove and the vintage member before you, matter of fact, I think you used his pictures..the back ground matches perfectly. you'al let me know what you think of each other and the goods you so honestly peddle on EBay. How can I show you my NEW glove..it's a Rawlings Pro-1000BFOT HBB01, solid marron,turn the lip back on the web. I'll look at other gloves on this site, just don't know if I can trust you.....!

[quaz95]

wow