Mantle Gloves Do Well

[softball66]

First, I’d like to wish our forum’s Bret much luck in finding a new job soon! Know that’s tough going.

Second, Mickey Mantle gloves sure seem to capture the imagination and a big chunk out of pocket books. In this past week’s eBay, two nice Mantles came up, one of them is a very tough to find Rawlings Mantle MM2, with an illustrated pocket. It sold for $395. The other was the Triple Crown Mantle MM9 with the nice Triple Crown illustration of Mantle crouched above the crown in the palm. And it came with its original Rawlings bag. The descriptions and prices realized are listed below.
With postage, that’s nearly a thousand dollars for two Mantle gloves, and these are not the popular personal models but have fine display ability with the picture pockets and the MM2 a rarer bird.
Several years ago, one of our collectors had written and sent to me a proposed book draft on just covering store gloves of Mantle. That may not be a bad idea. They certainly caputre a lot of interest.
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I found this treasure at an estate sale. It is a Mickey Mantle MM9 vintage ball glove. This glove is still in its original Rawlings wrapper after all these years. It is in near mint condition with a small scuff on the thumb. This is a rare treasure and you wont find a vintage glove like this in its original wrapper. $539
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This is a used glove that is in primo condition because the owner took great care of it- heck he was the kind of guy who even saved the receipt and the can of oil he used to care for it as a kid

This glove is a Mickey Mantle, Picture in Pocket MM2 Rawlings model that was purchased on June 16 1961 in a Washington DC sporting goods store - there are no major flaws to this glove, it is soft and supple and feels great on the hand - no writing on it; laces aren’t brittle, piping all intact except a little scuffed- patch is great- nice patina - did I say it is one of those gloves that feels great on the hand?

The receipt has carbon writing on it from the sporting goods store and the owner's private notes on it in ink- it sold for $11.99 in 1961 plus $.24 "DC SALES TAX" $395

[BretMan]

Thanks for the well-wishes, Joe!

Those two Mantles were on my watch list and the final prices surprised me because they went for much higher than book value.

MM2's don't seem to come up very often. There's another one on eBay right now with a $400 "Buy it Now" price (bet that one goes unsold). That was a pretty clean glove, showing some small wear and use. If we call it "near mint" it would book at $150.

Mantle MM2

The MM9 surprised me even more! As a youth model, even in "mint" condition the book value is $120. If you can consider the original bag to add the same value as an original box, that would only add a 20% premium to the mint price (about $145).

Mantle MM9

What factors might be at work here? Besides the obvious allure of "The Mick", possibly we had some bidders not familiar with the vintage glove market, or some bidders that "just had to have it", no matter what the price.

Perhaps some of the buying fenzy is due to the upcoming holiday season. Maybe some lucky guys are going to find the Mantle glove under the tree that they didn't get as a kid!

[BretMan]

Even the low-end youth models are flying off the shelves!

This is probably one of the nicest of the very common GJ99 imports you'll ever find. Sold for 50% above full-book price: Rawlings GJ99 Mantle

There seems to be an influx of MM9's of late. Here are a handful that recently sold.

- $188 (at least 50% over book): MM9 #1

- $130 (a little over book price- if you consider it as "mint"): MM9 #2

- $70 ( a little over book for "excellent"- looks about as nice as the first two): MM9 #3

- $540! (about 450% over the "mint" price- some seller got lucky!): MM9 #4

A couple other notable Mantle's from recent auctions:

- MM2's aren't super-rare, but certainly harder to come by than the common MM9. This one is clean, but I wouldn't call it "mint". Yet this one brought $400, 25% over the "mint" book value: MM2

- Finally...a truly hard to find, top-line, early model, USA glove in great shape- the seminal MM Personal Model. This one didn't sell for it's original "Buy it Now" price, but brought $940 through a "Best Offer" deal. Book price is $750 for "near mint" condition: MM

[Jimmy R.]

I agree that Mantle gloves are jumping, but I must disagree with your logic. Price giudes in general are no longer valid given the constantly updating sales records of internet auctions. If the final sales price of a glove exceeds "book value", chalk it up to being an outlier in the data. If, on the other hand, a string of data comes along where consecutive glove sales exceed "book value", the book is wrong. A market is a market, trust it, it is never wrong (law of supply and demand). Value has shifted for Mantles recently and those looking to buy at the suggested "book" price will be shut out. But because a market is a market, demand may eventually subside and prices may fall back toward what a fabricated "guide" suggests.

Look at the recent sale of the G41 Ruth. It sold for much less that "book". Until more G41's sell, this must be considered an outlier in the data given that previous G41 sales were much higher. Mantle glove auctions are far more frequent, so it'll be interesting to see if this trend is sustainable.

[Centerfield]

There's a hell of a demand out there for Mantle gloves recently, but what baffles me is the interest in the child models. Sure, really nice condition MM9's will always find buyers (all NM to Mint gloves do), but why not spend a few hundred dollars more and get an EX MM? I'd pay $940 for a top of the line MM all day long instead of $540 for a cheaply made, child's MM9 (even if it was in its original bag). To each his own, though.

All that being said, I'm seriously interested in an MM and willing to go with the flow and spend over "book" for a really nice one (as close to mint as possible). I passed on the one that recenly sold for $940 on eBay in hopes of finding one in better condition. Am I crazy to believe I can acquire a nicer example?

[BretMan]

Jimmy,

While I agree in full with your assesment of a collectible market in relation to price guides, supply vs. demand and price flucuations- and I say that with nearly forty years of experience in various collectibles- I will have to disagree with your disagreement with my "logic".

"Logic" would imply that I have gathered data and then attempted to logically deduce some relevent facts from that data. All I did was collect the data!

Yes, there is a price guide in existence and those gloves did indeed sell for prices relative to that guide. What this might mean is open for interpretation.

My experience has been that you will often see a spike in eBay prices at this time of year and I attribute that to a "got to have it" attitude spurred by the holiday gift-giving season. If you look through the list of bidders on those low-end or import Mantle gloves, you'll see that most of the bidders are not the eBay "regulars" that make up the dedicated glove collecting market.

Besides the ususal strong showing by Mantle-endorsed gloves, my guess is that those factors are indeed creating some outlying data points. But that is just my guess- arrived at empirically, not logically.

We will see where the market goes and that is part of the fun with this hobby!

[Jimmy R.]

My apologies, Brett. "Logic" was a poor choice of a word on my part. I didn't mean to offend you at all. What I was trying to articulate was you noted "book price" so much when guides are simply that, guides. Sure, they're good as a reference, but actually keeping sales data, like you've been doing, is much more acurate to track the market and glove values.

[BretMan]

Believe me...no offense taken at all!

I hoped that sticking that little "winking smiley face guy" in there would convey that my disagreement was in a lighthearted vein. Heck, I'm a baseball umpire in my spare time and used to dealing with hot-headed players, screaming fans and raving coaches. It takes a lot more than anything you've posted here to offend me!

You make some valid points and spur some interesting discussion. That is the same way I view the price guides- as a reference or "starting point". Even though the prices in the guide were establised through known sales and auction data, with the internet market changing on a daily basis we would almost need a continually updated ticker to keep track of "current" or "real" market values.

Which, while being kind of cool, would probably be impractical.

It's like the old saying goes: How much is something worth? Whatever someone is willing to pay for it!

[softball66]

Interesting thoughts by Jimmy and Bret on value of price guides. We welcome any input on the store guides we have as far as updating and improvements. On a broad sense, we know through eBay, that common and lesser condition gloves have not done as well as the rarer, better conditioned ones. EBay has confirmed this, with its massive number of sales, the existence of the such commonality and demand.
One of the popular indices that we published in the early days was the "Glove Price Index" in which we secured and compiled information from dealer lists and SCD ads the listings of gloves for specific sales. This was a very popular publication and we used it to help establish price ranges on gloves.
One of our glovers tried to index all of the gloves listed on eBay but gave up on it as being too difficult with descriptions all over the board. A guide is just what you guys are saying it is, a guide, a reference point, opinions, but the guides need to be tuned fairly frequently.
Thanks to both of your for some cogent input!

[Jimmy R.]

Thanks for the smiley, Brett, but I had to apologize even if you weren't offended. I should have caught my tone and incorrect verbage when I reread what I wrote, then corrected it. Similarly, I'm glad Joe has taken this thread as constructive. I remember people trying to track all the eBay sales data. It's way too time consuming.

I do have a suggestion for Joe's price guide, though. Why not send out a questionier to all newsletter subscribers once a year (or whenever the guide will be updated) so collectors can have fractional input to changes? A few pages including a list of gloves/endorsers where we could write in up or down arrows, percentage changes or actual values. Then, a write in section for gloves that aren't included on the list. Finally, some questions to measure the tone of collectors such as; How much of a premium do you place on mint gloves or picture boxes?

I think collectors would not only welcome this, but actually enjoy it. Joe, on the other hand, might not as he'd have to compile the data. It's not as good as following the actual market, but I think sampling the market via a survey like this would make for a much more accurate guide.

[leftygomez]

wonder if lefty gloves(mantle) are going to rise as gloves get more scarce. i collect mantle gloves and 7 years ago xpg6,mm, mmp were plentiful but now when one comes up its a bare knucle fight to the finish for it. glad i got mine before this happened but its fun to watch.

[Thudhugger]

Do left handed MM's do as well as righties? And what about in the less than mint (say fair to good range) (my version of fair to good is mild checking in the palm, cracking of the leather but not worn thru) Also what is your opinion of relacing? Would it reduce the value even if it restored the glove? I only ask because that is my current project glove.

Thud

[softball66]

I'm sure left handed models of gloves for players who used opposite hands is a downtick, 10% to perhaps 30% depending on the player, lefts to rights more severe than opposite probably because most collectors are right hand throwers and the gloves seem more "natural."
On relacing that's a matter of preference largely. It's not like the furniture antiques for instance where re-finishing is a big no-no. There are a lot of variables here, depending on the re-lacing job, how the laces look, new to a vintage look, value of the glove, age of the glove, etc.
Now, on to the Mantle story. Most recently, I was asked to evaluate a
Mickey Mantle game glove based on the original recipient's letter that he received the glove from Mantle in 1954. This glove given to the owner as a spare glove Mantle had in his locker. It was a MM personal model.
The feeling in the hobby about Mantle gloves is that Mantle went from using a MC Cooper Rawlings to an HH Rawlings, maybe to an HSP and into the XPG series with the H & a Twist. That's the consensus. The MM personal model was introduced in 1954 and the model lasted through 1957. The "catch" is that the model was altered in 1956 then produced with laces in the palm and the "Custom Built" stamping changed from a diagonal under the pinkie to a vertical down-to-up stamping along the piinkie area. Both happened in conjunction in 1956 retail catalogs. Though the recipient's letter stated he got the glove from Mantle in 1954
this MM has all of the above earmarks of the 1956 glove. Out of the time frame for the provenance and thus casting doubts on the "story" of being handed the glove.
Did Mantle ever use a MM personal model. Who knows right now? It could be that Rawlings wanted him to and may have given him an MM (s) to try or to own. But Mantle seemed to prefer the biggest glove in the Rawlings line, the company he endorsed with.
Glover Scott Calev's has put together a helpful draft of a booklet he
compiled regarding Mantle gloves and it's getting to a point where producing this book makes a little sense.

[BretMan]

Personally, that booklet would make for an interesting read. The abundance of different Mantle glove models is amazing and a comprehensive list would come in handy.

There is another odd-ball Mantle model number on eBay right now. It is a GJ333, one I've never seen before. The glove looks like the typical youth-sized GJ99, or its variant, the GJ999.

[Jimmy R.]

I'd love to read what Scott has come up with. Any way of contacting him?