For Fun

Share your bats, catchers equipment, trophies, pinbacks, pennants, etc., discuss sports or other collecting interests

For Fun

Postby Rickybulldog » November 1st, 2011, 9:25 pm

Come sing along with me:

Three of these belong together
Three of these are kind of the same
Can you guess which one of these doesn't belong here?
Now it's time to play our game (time to play our game).
1.jpg



Cool glove, just struck me as funny.
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Re: For Fun

Postby ebbets55 » November 1st, 2011, 9:35 pm

Could it be the super rare $5,000 variation. You know the kind with no tag (and no feedback)?

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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 1st, 2011, 10:48 pm

Ah, yes kind sir, the bottom left is the only one without a patch, however, the upper right example is the only lefty of the group. That said, the one that truely doesn't belog there is the botttom right as it stands head and shoulders above its brethren and has no peers! 8)
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Re: For Fun

Postby Rickybulldog » November 1st, 2011, 11:31 pm

Answers may vary. 8)
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Re: For Fun

Postby briggs86 » November 6th, 2011, 1:39 pm

So out of curiosity what are our group thoughts and mr zero feedback and 5k starting bid with no patch? I mean the glove looks clean, sig looked decent upon zoom inspection. Pretty darn white too?
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 6th, 2011, 2:53 pm

I think the answer rests in the question you posed in the glove of the month thread. The glove is very, very nice… so why is it just sitting there? Sure, the 0% feedback is a significant detriment, so perhaps people are afraid to trust the seller. I happen to believe that straight auction formats are best for sellers and produce highest prices.

This is just my opinion based on observations over a pretty long period of time, but it all rests in the psychology of the market. What is the market? The market consists of all bidders. In this situation, most potential bidders collect gloves, some collect just Ruth items and others may simply want to pick up a cool item of the games most iconic player to display. In any event, I’ve noticed that unless “buy it now” prices are significantly beneath perceived market value, the item sits and languishes. The buyer is not getting a deal, so no one bites. Let’s face it, a large majority of collectors find the most thrilling aspects of any hobby to be the hunt and the deal. The advent of eBay has taken away the hunt aspect (unless something is miscategorized and only a few eyes see it) and “buy it now” has taken away the deal (unless the seller isn’t knowledgeable enough and unknowingly lists an item at a significant discount). That leaves us with the old fashion, straight auction.

Yes, eBay has shifted away from this format over time and it’s a shame as it was the reason eBay became so popular. The seller has to overcome an unsettling risk of selling beneath HIS perceived value for the item in a straight auction, but in the end, the item sells for what it’s truly worth at that given point in time. Here’s where the psychological aspect of markets comes into play. If this G41 Ruth were sitting at $800 with a few minutes left in the auction, several people will jump in and bid because the “deal” aspect of the equation comes back into play for the bidder(s). Furthermore, there is a semblance of greed to it as well. Bidders do not want “the other guy” to get a deal, they want it for themselves. When this occurs, the item’s price rises to its true market value. Also, there are occasions where two or more people want an item strongly enough where they bid higher than perceived value. When listing via the “buy it now” method, the seller eliminates this potentiality and loses out on any premium that could develop in the heat of the moment.

Anyway, those are my thoughts on the matter.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 6th, 2011, 3:16 pm

Let's take it one step further. The seller may be taking on more risk than he wants to assume in a straight auction. The "buy it now" method eliminates this risk, but at the risk of diminishing the demand for the item over the long run. The longer the item sits unsold, the less demand there is for it, thus the less value the market puts on the item. It’s a vicious cycle that hurts the seller and other sellers. Think about it. You’ve likely watched a “buy it now” item sit and sit and sit. You lose interest in it. That can’t be good for the seller. Furthermore, it’s not good for other sellers of identical items as the languishing listing diminishes demand for all like examples.

So, what is a seller to do? What parts of the equation can he control as to maximize the value for his item? Outside of selling directly to a buyer without the help of eBay or advertising (but this takes the most legwork and most of us are lazy), the only thing he can control is the timing of the auction. Face it, times are not as good as they were a few years ago. Chances are that items bought four years ago will not garner the same price today, not to mention any chance for profit. So, sellers are left with the choice to auction an item now during a time of economic recession or wait for the economic cycle to change. If you can’t wait it out, you have to take the risk now and potentially take some lumps.

In full disclosure, I listed some items in a straight auction on eBay a few weeks ago. Some did very well, some didn’t. It’s the sign of the times. I’ll be listing some others this evening. The only thing I’m certain of is that they will sell for what they are worth. That’s all an auction in a free market can guarantee.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Rickybulldog » November 6th, 2011, 3:22 pm

+1. Nice posts Jerry, enjoyed reading them.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 6th, 2011, 4:30 pm

My rule of thumb has always been that if a "buy it now" (not best offer) hasn't ended within two hours of its initial listing, it's dead in the water. There has been an exception to this from time to time, but enough eyes have seen the listing in two hours to know if it is priced with a discount or a premium.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 6th, 2011, 4:41 pm

The other choice the seller has is to incorporate a “reserve” or not. I used reserves on eBay a long time ago but stopped because of the same reason I spoke of above, the deal/greed factor. With a reserve, there are far fewer bidding frenzies because of the psychological nature of the bidder. Like I mentioned earlier, one is less apt to bid if he doesn’t feel like he’s getting a deal and even less likely if he knows the other guy isn’t going to steal the item. A reserve squashes this uncertainty for the bidders as well as their adrenaline, resulting in, more often than not, flat results and unsold items.
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Re: For Fun

Postby GloveCrazy » November 7th, 2011, 1:47 pm

Generally speaking I agree with your perspectives. It is a lot more exciting when an item doesn’t have a large initial bid or reserve, and sometimes that electricity pushes items higher. You had me right until I hit the it’s always worth what it went for argument:

Mr. Mitt wrote:The only thing I’m certain of is that they will sell for what they are worth. That’s all an auction in a free market can guarantee.


Ebay items still often sell for an amount significantly different from what they are “worth”. Let’s just look at some of the ”Best of November” items. Two similar vented catchers mitts sold this month and the lesser condition one sold for $40+ more, but it isn’t worth $40 more. I bought the nicer one, but it didn’t get anywhere near my max bid. If someone had contacted me out of the blue I would have paid up to my max bid, which is really closer to what it’s worth (assuming I’m knowledgable which is debatable). And then there’s the mystery 1” web that went for $400 for some unknown reason.

I win some gloves that are better than what they appeared in the pictures, and others that can easily be upgraded with a little cleaning and/or lacing. Unfortunately, that pendulum swings the other way, too, with items less desirable than what the pictures or descriptions suggested.
Some auctions are benefitted by two collectors trying to fill the same perceived hole in their collection at the same point in time, and others are pounded when that second bidder can’t be lured. Ebay is still a craps-shoot, with the possible exception of the highest end items, but even then the advanced collectors often have a wide margin difference of opinion of value (which is one of the reasons why glove collecting is so cool).
Last edited by GloveCrazy on November 7th, 2011, 1:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: For Fun

Postby GloveCrazy » November 7th, 2011, 1:52 pm

Now to answer the intial question ... one beauty has a grey background. What do I win?
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Re: For Fun

Postby vintagebrett » November 7th, 2011, 2:01 pm

GloveCrazy wrote: I bought the nicer one, but it didn’t get anywhere near my max bid. If someone had contacted me out of the blue I would have paid up to my max bid, which is really closer to what it’s worth (assuming I’m knowledgable which is debatable).



I agree with this. In the auction format you never know what the winner was willing to pay. I've seen things sell one week for $30 and the next week for $100 - just depends on who sees the item that particular point in time and who has money to spend.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 7th, 2011, 3:21 pm

Yes, in a perfect world, markets are efficient and items will sell for their true value in an auction setting. In our little glove universe, however, things are far from perfect. There are a lot of factors involved, but most of these factors are controllable by the seller. Accurate and concise description, clear photos, etc. all play large roles. Most importantly, though, is the seller's choice of venue. Completely agree that an item may sell for a lower price one day and then a higher price another day on eBay. You have to remember, though, that despite their growing fees, eBay remains an inexpensive choice when it comes to auctioning an item. If you want your glove to be viewed by a more refined target audience where the auction comes to them instead of the market having to search for it on eBay, then you have to turn to a memorabilia auction house. However, this comes with a price. Sellers have many choices, and ultimately, the final sale price is a direct result of these choices made.

When Brett mentioned it comes down to who has money to spend, that's still a choice of the seller. We know that people are spending less right now. It remains the seller's choice to list in these conditions or hold off until times improve.

One other factor we are dealing with as vintage glove collectors is the illiquidity factor. Cards have become a commodity since grading transformed that segment of the hobby. Everybody knows what a particular card is "worth" in a given grade. With gloves, many times we are dealing with one of a kind items (or at least very few of a kind). Even when there is a supply of a particular glove in the hobby, because they were meant to be used, condition plays a significant roll in price and condition varies drastically (as does collector preference... nice patch, smooth lining, no ink, etc.). Because of this, there are no steadfast values to these items, it's more subjective than most other collectibles. Rob noted that he was willing to pay a premium for that catcher's mitt and ended up getting it for less. Great for him, terrible for the seller. But the seller had a choice to list it as he did. He could have presented it better, chose a different venue to ensure more potential bidders saw it, or even tried a different method of selling instead of an auction. If he had contacted Rob directly, he would have pocketed more money. That's still a choice. The seller chose not to seek out a buyer to deal with directly, for whatever reason. He may have not had the time or energy to spend on hunting someone down. Perhaps he needed to turn the mitt over quickly. Nonetheless, it was still his choice. Then there's the buyer's perspective, in this case, Rob. He believes he bought it at a discount. Perhaps, perhaps not, only time will tell. But when he does decide to sell it, he may choose to alter the selling equation a bit in order to profit from it. Better photos, cleaning it, waiting for the economy to turn in his favor, or perhaps even finding a buyer to sell to directly thus setting his price and eliminating fees. It all comes down to assuming risk and making choices.
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Re: For Fun

Postby Mr. Mitt » November 7th, 2011, 3:32 pm

As for that Hutch 1" web, think you can chalk it up to a new collector. When I started out, I overpayed for things because I didn't know better. Gaining knowledge is sometimes costly. The best thing for new collectors is to grab as many different gloves as possible, as in expensively as possible (hopefully), to gain a better understanding as to the differences between gloves, their makers and materials. If the bidders had done this before jumping right in, they may have noticed that it's a very small, children's glove made with inferior materials. It's a learning experience, hope it doesn't dissuade the winner from continuing in the hobby once he realizes what he just won.
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