...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

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...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby escort1991 » January 7th, 2010, 11:32 pm

The other day, I found 2 gloves. They were cheap and I thought they could be good projects. Can you guys tell me a little bit about each of these gloves. I couldn't find anything on a search.

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First is a Wilson 1680 Designed by Ted Williams:
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Second is a Wilson A2164 Jim "Catfish" Hunter:
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From what I have read on the internet, the 1680 is from around 1961 and the A2164 is early 70s. But I am not sure. Just want to know a little bit more info. Thanks
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Re: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby BretMan » January 8th, 2010, 1:10 pm

The Ted Williams glove is kind of unusual in that it carries a model number usually associated with gloves sold through the Sears stores and catalogs, yet is branded with the Wilson logos. I would guess that this glove was issued about the time that Williams switched his glove endorsement deal from Wilson to Sears near the end of his playing career and that would be right about 1960/1961.

Williams endorsed Wilson gloves from the late 40's and throughout the 50's. In 1960 he signed an endorsement deal with Sears which, at the time, was believed to be the most lucrative endorsement deal in sports. For the next two decades all of their sporting goods carried the "Ted Williams" brand name- everything from baseball, basketball and football equipment to hunting and fishing gear.

All of the Sears baseball gloves carried four-digit model numbers begining with the numbers "16" (such as "1670", "1650", "1652", etc.) Just from personal observation, it does appear that at the outset of this deal Wilson was making at least some of the gloves sold in Sears stores. Shortly thereafter, it appears that Sears switched their glovemaking contract over to MacGregor and they made most of the Ted Williams gloves for the remainder of his endorsement deal.

This is a common practice for Sears, be it for sporting goods, washing machines, tires or any other product sold through their stores. Sears is a retailer and not a manufacturer, and they contract with other companies to produce the goods sold in their stores. These goods are otherwise identical to those sold by the other companies, only they have been "re-branded" with the Sears logo. For instance, if you buy a Sears Kenmore washing machine, odds are that you are actually getting a Whirlpool-made washer with "Kenmore" badges on it.

Wilson had a decades-long history of producing gloves for Sears under the "J.C. Higgins" brand name. I could only speculate on the specifics, but this glove must have been issued right about the time that his endorsement deal was switched. Perhaps Wilson was allowed to market a Williams glove under some existing terms of his contract with them. Maybe during the first year of his deal with Sears the gloves they sold still carried the Wilson logos and brand name. After that point, the gloves sold through Sears were identified only as "Ted Williams" or "Sears" brands, no matter which company actually produced the gloves.

I guess that makes this particular glove a bit of an oddball- it carries a Sears model number, but also the Wilson brand name. I'd have to agree that 1961 would be a logical date to put on this glove and that it is some sort of "hybrid" spawned from the long association between Wilson and Sears and the switching of his endorsement deal at about the same time.

On the other glove, Wilson produced Jim "Catfish" Hunter gloves between 1969 and 1980. I don't see that exact model listed in their catalogs during those years, but their catalogs reflected gloves sold through sporting goods stores. It wasn't uncommon for other models to be produced for sale through other retail outlets (department stores, chain stores) and those aren't always listed in their catalogs.

As with many other popular players, companies would often produce several different models bearing the player's name in any given year. This was the case with Hunter. Wilson would issue high-quality top-line "Personal Model" gloves as well as lesser-quality "Autograph Models" using thinner leather, cheaper materials and usually smaller in size as they were aimed at the youth market.

Without an exact reference in the Wilson catalogs, the best I could say is that this is generically a 1970's style glove and definitely one of the less-expensive models. The "Autograph Models" might have sold for about 1/2 or 1/3 what the top-line gloves did and that lower price reflected the lower quality of materials and construction.

Hope that helps!
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Re: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby escort1991 » January 8th, 2010, 1:38 pm

Another great post from Bret! I appreciate the help. I enjoyed reading about the gloves and some history. Thank you!

I figured the Hunter glove was a lower line "autograph model", since there is one on eBay for $29. I bought it to learn to clean and condition the gloves, since older gloves are new to me.

I know I saw a Sears catcher's model at the PIAS also. I will have to go back and see what that is all about.

But thank you again.
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nRe: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby stockbuddy » January 9th, 2010, 1:19 pm

Hi Escort, Cool gloves. Just wanted to make you aware that there is a wonderful resource glove book authored by Joe Phillips that will help you and many glove collectors answer a lot of questions about gloves. Joe's book is titled, 2007 Vintage Baseball Glove Catalog Source Book. Many of the glovers on this forum have one and use it regularly. If you want to pick them up you can find them on ebay and also www.glovecollector@mac.com. Great resource for us all to learn more about vintage gloves.
Much of what glove collectors on this forum share in the way of information likely come from Joe's long years of research in the glove hobby.
Welcome to the forum.
Dave
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Re: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby stockbuddy » January 9th, 2010, 1:27 pm

Hi Escort, I noticed I did not have Joe's email correct. It is glovecollector@mac.com I hope you and other new collectors will keep this glove resource in mind. Forgot to mention too he has a new baseball glove price guide out to help you with the value of old gloves. Happy glove hunting.

Dave
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Re: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby softball66 » January 9th, 2010, 3:50 pm

Let's not forget David Cunningham's excellent reference book, "A Visual History of Ball Gloves", that has been badly needed by our hobby with its superb picture comparisons for dating and visualizing.
Or Jim Daniel's website on vintage baseball gloves.
You may contact David C. at: cunn3@verizon.net
for more information
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Re: ...some not so vintage, but vintage to me.

Postby escort1991 » January 9th, 2010, 5:09 pm

Hey guys, thanks for the references. I will look into them. I always have hated asking questions, especially when i can find it by myself. :mrgreen:

Thank you for the guidance.
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