Horween Leather....

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Horween Leather....

Postby GloveDoctor » July 31st, 2007, 11:23 am

I can remember the Rawlings Heart of the Hide gloves from the mid-late 90's, and that stiff quality you got when you bought them. They were hell to break in, but were awesome once were.

Can someone explain Horween Leather to me? Why is it so coveted? Is it currently used by any glove manufacturers? What's the story?

I recently got a Nike Pro Gold Tradition 1st base mitt, and I can swear it is made of Horween Leather.
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Horween

Postby softball66 » July 31st, 2007, 4:22 pm

Horween has been sort of the "kingpin" of leather for sporting goods leather products, especially the Rawings heart of the hides and premium gloves. They also have provided leather for the NFL footballs. Widely recognized and very knowledgable and proficient, they helped Nocona and I out when we made our horsehide Babe Ruth replica gloves. They had to access the horsehide from France. They had to rediscover and find for us -- from a Ruth glove we furnished -- the "snuffed tan" treatment given to that type of suedy leather. Horween has been the big name in sporting goods leather suppliers for years and have a well-earned reputation.
There are other tanners and good tanners in the U.S. though environmental concerns have played havoc with their economies over the past decade or so.
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Leather on Wilson Gloves

Postby GloveGypsy » July 31st, 2007, 6:25 pm

I remember reading.....somewhere....that the leather on Wilson USA gloves was Ansonia leather. I probably have this source deep in my files, but can't put my hands or eyes on it. Does anyone know of the source for Wilson USA made gloves?
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Horween leather...

Postby Vindoggie » July 31st, 2007, 6:58 pm

I Googled "Horween" once & came up with "a high end leather manufactuer based in Chicago that supplys the highest quality leather for anything from handbags to shoes to our very own obsession- baseball gloves & mitts!" I have a TPX Pro that was stiched in the Phillipines, but made out of Horween leather. They cut it rather thin, but its kind of amazing, of all my gloves there is far less sting in this one, even on the base of the index finger (OUCH!) Its very nice leather that obviously has a reputation for quality. All I ever do to my TPX Pro is rub a thin coat of straight vaseline over it. The leather doesn't scuff. Its great stuff! - V
To hell with the expression "You don't really know a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes" How about- "... until you've caught nine innings using his mitt!" A bit more accurate, don't you think?
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Premium Glove Leather

Postby softball66 » August 1st, 2007, 7:25 am

Glove Gypsy's right, Ansonia is a leather that Wilson has touted as using on its top-line gloves. Probaby a specially treated leather that Wilson specified from its tannery.
MacGregor used a "Netro" tanned leather in the 1940s and 1950s and it was described as a "flexible and pliable" leather. I'm sure my Bobby Doerr MacGregor G111 uses that and IT IS a honey of a leather.
One usually wants a strong leather that's pliable. We've gotten a bit lazier these days about breaking in hence the move to softer leathers that really break down faster. More glove sales result, right? :twisted:
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'kip leather'??

Postby jackwhale » August 1st, 2007, 4:23 pm

The term 'kip leather' is also used to describe leather in some high-end Rawlings gloves. In the dictionary, kip can mean a calf...'calf hide' doesn't sound as durable as 'steerhide'.
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Hide n Seek

Postby GloveGypsy » August 3rd, 2007, 2:46 am

Steer hide vs. Bull hide question:

Once in a while I see a baseball glove made from bull hide. Most are from steer hide and cow hide.

Steer hide is tougher than cowhide and bull hide is tougher than steer hide, right? Is that a result of castration, the hide becoming less tough? Or is there no difference at all?

I know that ranchers castrate most of the male cattle and only keep a few bulls to mate with the cows, but does a bull generally produce a tougher leather?

Inquiring minds need to know?

Joe, you are from Texas, and that state has it's share of cattlemen. I know when I am served a steak, the waiter never says it's from a steer, cow or bull. Does gender affect hide strength?

On another note, I have one beautiful Trevino made in the USA glove made from 6oz hide. I learned and witnessed at Glovesmith that most hides are "thinned" or "shaved" to insure uniform thickness and allow the leather to "break". This shaving is done prior to putting the hide under the Clicker.

The thick, white Trevino hide glove is really impressive, but I own it as a show glove because I like pliability in my ball glove. I like to "feel" the ball upon impact. I will put up a pic tomorrow if anyone is interested in seeing it.
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Postby JC » August 3rd, 2007, 2:23 pm

I am definitely interested in seeing your Trevino glove.
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Trevino gloves

Postby Vindoggie » August 3rd, 2007, 2:53 pm

I was almost in the new glove business a few years ago. I was looking for different gloves, not Rawlings, Mizuno, Wilson, or Easton... One of the manufacturers I found was Trevino. I purchased a glove and it was beautiful and nicely made. It was very stiff and made from thick, top grain steer hide. I tried like heck to break it in... I like a glove to keep its shape, but this glove wouldn't budge! I could never use it. It was made from too good, too thick leather? My youngest boy likes his gloves floppy. He hated the Trevino. Although Sonny Trevino stays under the radar, making him almost impossible to reach by design... I perseverred and got a hold of him. He was so impressed with my work, we spoke for nearly two hours by phone. He runs a small operation, mostly family, making their gloves by hand, one at a time. According to Sonny, he hand picks the hides so not to have tic bites or any imperfections. His gloves are made from only the top layer. He said that a lot of gloves are dyed black nowadays, to hid the imperfections. When I got off the phone with him, I wanted my Trevino to break in. I wanted to sell the Trevino line in my store. He told me that the best way to soften up a glove was to A) Coat it inside & out with straight vaseline B) Put a ball in it & tie it up C) Wrap it in a pillow case then wrap that in another pillow case d) put it in a commercial clothes dryer. When it was done, whatever vaseline the glove absorbed would soften it up. The ball would bang around (your wife will kick your bottom side if you do this at home in the family dryer!) & pound it while it tumbled to help soften it. I did it at home while the wife was out (Shhhh!). The glove softened a bit, but it was never soft enough for me to use. I resold it on Ebay... The Trevino gloves are superior in every way, but for my taste and my son's, that did not translate into a better playing glove...
To hell with the expression "You don't really know a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes" How about- "... until you've caught nine innings using his mitt!" A bit more accurate, don't you think?
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White Trevino Made In USA

Postby GloveGypsy » August 3rd, 2007, 7:25 pm

Vindoggie, like you, I need a glove that is more pliable than the Trevino. However, I really admire the craftsmanship on this glove pictured below.
Here are some pics for yours and JC's benefit. Notice the thick leather on the thumb loop ties.

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Postby JC » August 3rd, 2007, 10:00 pm

How much did that glove cost?

There are no prices listed on the Trevino website.
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Glove cost

Postby GloveGypsy » August 4th, 2007, 12:39 am

Hey JC,

I think I paid $90 for that glove and that was four years ago. It has never caught a ball, probably never will as long as I own it. The reason I bought it was to have an example of Trevino USA made in my collection.

I play competitive softball and use a modified Wilson XXL (USA Made) and for baseball, I use a Nokona PRO from the 1970's. The Wilson XXL is a ball catching magnet and I inserted the web laces to give the pocket a deeper feel.

Have never owned a glove that caught like this one.

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Ever heard of these guys?

Postby Vindoggie » August 4th, 2007, 11:52 pm

www.bradygloves.com

They make their gloves either with stiffer leather that requires break-in, or softer game ready leather. Their big claim to fame is that they stich their gloves in the position the hand is in when it is receiving the ball. Check it out. I believe they are made here.
To hell with the expression "You don't really know a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes" How about- "... until you've caught nine innings using his mitt!" A bit more accurate, don't you think?
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Hey GloveGypsy!

Postby Vindoggie » August 4th, 2007, 11:56 pm

That's a beautiful A2000! Make an error with that baby & it's on you!!! - V
To hell with the expression "You don't really know a man until you've walked a mile in his shoes" How about- "... until you've caught nine innings using his mitt!" A bit more accurate, don't you think?
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Anotomically designed gloves

Postby GloveGypsy » August 5th, 2007, 12:16 am

Hey Vin, thanks for the compliments on that A2. You are right, if I miss one, the error is on me, not the glove.

-never tried a Brady glove. What they advertise may make sense, but I tend to splay my fingers just prior to ball impact, hence the need for a glove made of pliable leather. Anyway, with competitors like Rawlings, Wilson and Mizuno I would have to come up with something that makes my glove different, so hats off to Brady.

Although I love the older ones, my interest is in USA made gloves, specifically, the ones from the early 1960's and on.

Also, I know this is a vintage glove board and our conversation has drifted from Horween leather to contemporary glove designs, so my apology to Brett.

Vin, you want to begin a new thread on contemporary gloves?
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