1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

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1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby vintagesportscollector » June 23rd, 2015, 9:14 am

Curious of any thoughts and opinions on this glove?

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionD ... mans-Glove

-Joe
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby vintagebrett » June 23rd, 2015, 10:18 am

I believe this to be the same glove that made its way around the National last summer. If that is the case, I would not bid on it as a webless. I'll defer to Number9 (William) as he can explain the construction and structural clues better than me.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby vintagebrett » June 23rd, 2015, 10:19 am

It would also be useful to bidders if they posted pictures of the thumb and index fingers do they could decide for themselves
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby HolyGrail » June 24th, 2015, 10:53 am

Message deleted.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby HolyGrail » June 24th, 2015, 11:04 am

Sorry for my poor punctuation. I've asked Lelands to post a photo. Dave Bushing offered to write a LOA.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby HolyGrail » June 24th, 2015, 12:03 pm

Message deleted.
Attachments
reach resized.jpg
Early 1900s A.J. Reach Glove
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby mikesglove » June 24th, 2015, 12:50 pm

Dave, Interesting article in Forbes about the fantastic Rawlings TGP model recently on ebay. I didn't know the same sellers also listed the Reach crescent glove pictured above. I was surprised someone would pay $511 for it. It was in great condition but only 7 1/2" tall.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby Number9 » June 24th, 2015, 1:46 pm

David, sorry to see this is still an issue. I was hoping you and Leland's would have found middle ground last summer. The facts are quite clear, as (I hope) you will see below.

Bottom line, this glove has been presented to me multiple times since 2013, and it is what it is. I've seen it in photos, I've held it person (before you, or Leland's had a chance to buy it). It was offered to me last summer and it was priced at a level that would have been profitable for me - if it were a webless. I passed because it is not a webless. While true that the button and the patch CAN date from the early 20c, the glove is not a true webless. I'm sorry to say, it is a full web that happens to be missing the web. I did a (reasonably) thorough search for Spalding webless models. The latest that I could find was offered in 1904. Perhaps you can find a later model, I'd love to see it. So, 1904.... that's a perfect time frame for that patch and that button. We agree there. However, the glove has a detail which dates it years later - the diverted finger seam. That patent was GRANTED in 1908 and was used on countless full web models for decades after it was introduced. Look at any webless you want, you won't find that finger seam. Add to that the construction of the thumb and forefinger and it's pretty clear cut. It was made for a web. Even the overall shape and padding formation indicate a later model. Most webless gloves, particularly the Spalding models, tend to have flat, mostly even padding across the palm and fingers, they are not thickly padded through the thumb and pinky finger. I would have loved to seen this glove discussed more on the show floor, but, the people who were most convinced of it being a webless were the people who became the most connected to it. I wish I could have been more convincing at the time. Sorry. Blame me if you'd like, but I tried to help. I still am. You're a nice guy and I hope it works out for you.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby HolyGrail » June 24th, 2015, 2:08 pm

Message deleted.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby Number9 » June 24th, 2015, 2:48 pm

If by "over thinking it" you mean that I'm looking at the plain facts, then yes, I'm over thinking it. I have no dog in this fight, I have no money in the glove, I have no personal or financial interest in it whatsoever. I've passed. Multiple times. I encouraged you to as well, as a friend and fellow hobbyist. If you'd like to make it personal, go for it. I have far more integrity than to engage with you on that level. As I said, I'm only trying to help, but I understand that that help no longer helps you as the owner/seller. I've been in business for 6 years. Small potatoes, sure. I've been in the hobby since I was 10. If you know more than me, you never would have sought my opinion. I'll take the Pepsi challenge with anyone that would like to talk gloves. Especially someone who can't see the plain facts. By the way, I've presented my side. The burden of proof is on you now.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby vintagebrett » June 24th, 2015, 4:02 pm

See, here's a prime example of the trouble message boards/forums can have. The original poster asked for thoughts and opinions on the glove - I gave mine because I had seen it first hand. Doesn't mean I'm wrong or right but that was my opinion. David posted his thoughts and those of experienced people whose input he respected and sought out. William posted his thoughts based on his experience with the glove and research. I don't believe anyone is calling you out David or suggesting that you are trying to pull a fast one on the glove community - far from it. We are just giving our opinions of the glove having seen it and handled it. There's no harm in having a discussion and disagreeing about an item - it happens in all collecting communities. Bottom line is that the buyer needs to be happy with their purchase. I know when I'm buying something of a high value I like to have as much information possible to make an informed decision. Best of luck with the auction.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby MGHProductions » June 24th, 2015, 5:00 pm

Great discussion guys. Thanks for the input and thoughts. This is a great glove collecting community.
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Re: 1890s Webless Glove in Lelands

Postby spaldinger » June 26th, 2015, 12:32 am

Everything William said is exactly correct. The padding is too thick for a workman's glove, the seams are wrong, the tag is later "and" there is not a photo posted of the area where the web "once existed." Convenient! This approach to an auction listing is what I refer to as "sneaky stupid." The auction house really knows its not right and they just throw it out there hoping to snag a passing fish, or else they just don't do their due diligence (which is very often the case). Most often they just ignore or just don't really want to know the truth, because it might cost them a nickel. Fellow collectors, if your not doing your own research and connecting the dots, then expect to be taken advantage of. That is a "fact" that hasn't changed in the 25 years I've been in the hobby. Sad to say,,,,
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