Floodgates open

[softball66]

My post Jim, was not about pricing, which as we know does change from transaction to transaction as you and I are well aware of.
All memorabilia or antique price guides do provide or should offer price ranges based on certain criteria. Price ranges should be set on previous sales histories. Many factors can influence the sale of a single item, especially in an auction system.
This was about a claim being valid or not made by the seller. Our's says almost every glove he has is "very scarce." What does he base that claim on?
Yes "Scarce" can be a relative claim too. But, as we have learned from 20 years experience and based on studies from the logic of productions by the various baseball glove companies, there is a reasonable assumption of rarity or commonality.
Should a seller state his glove is mint, when it is not? Should he make any type of claim that is not backed up?
I think our discussion has gotten a little off the topic of a description claim.
and, sorry you had the problem with your glove not bringing what the price guide provided. Maybe next time you will sell the same glove for $400.

[murphusa]

Sorry Joe, you might be taking what I am saying wrong . The price guide example was just that. Many people rely on different things to make their choice to bid or not. So I might buy a glove at a price gotten from the price guide in hopes that I will be able to get it back due to the guide. The "I" in the sentance is 3rd person

The seller in Texas is using enticements to sell his gloves, but I have seen just as many in others ads.

We here cannot always be the keeper of the "Good Housekeeping Seal"

People will make their choices based on what is in their minds, be it a good deal, words used by a dealer, a price guide etc

How many time do we read here that, "due to a bad description the dealer cost himself money on this glove", "scan didn't show what the glove looked like so I got a good deal on it"

"We" have been a lucky group because we can pick up on the words added or the words missing, give the new collectors time and they also we learn

In reference to the auctions and history. One of the gloves I sold last week sold for $400. I paid $300 for it. The first time I saw the glove was in a "Best of Yesterday" Auction by Dave Bushing, Dan Knoll from 1997. It sold then for $400.00

In 16 years the same glove and been in the home of many a glove collector and has always stayed the same. Interesting if you ask me

[NewSouth]

This is an interesting conversation and one that I struggle with when listing my items. I generally go by the pricing guides when deciding to list as "rare" or any other similar title. I'm not sure if it makes a difference with the eventual price, maybe it does on some items and maybe not. The price guides are pretty generic in terms of brand though and model and generally only refer to the player. It addresses this with the more high profile players but not for most players. A rare and desirable glove in one model doesn't mean all models of that endorser are rare or desirable. You can't always know which brand or model they are referring to. Well, maybe you guys can but I don't always know. And a rare glove to the general public may be a model that most of us already own and see all the time in our circles. It's not rare or special at all to us because we see it all the time.

And rare or scarce is relative. If I have a bat of a minor leaguer, it may be one of a kind. Is it a rare item? Or a glove of an obscure player? Rare and the value don't always go hand in hand as even in the price guides rare items sometimes don't have much dollar value. I remember reading something about that in one of the guides. Rare but there is really not much of a demand.

I try to provide as much information about the item and player associated to give potential buyers a background on the item. Many people seem to use this information to how they value an item. I know this because of the questions and comments that I get from buyers. In my experience, giving the item context builds more value in the eyes of some buyers than just labeling it scarce. Knowing the context makes it more fun for me as well and I research items that I buy if I don't know a lot of information about them.

I think the seller in question loses much of the benefit of providing information by labeling everything "very scarce". I certainly don't trust him to make that distinction because he obviously just leaves that on every glove description. Many of his items are nice and also rare.. it's a nice collection. I think he's lost more value for the person he's selling them for by just dropping them all on the market at once and not providing much in the way of real information about the item. I would have spread it out a bit more but maybe the seller just wanted him to turn it to money as quickly as possible. Just my opinion though. I've been wrong before.

[scottnoble]

I agree that with ebay,Hunt and Legendary,it should be a buyers market right now.When Legendary describes a glove as ultra rare,I know what they are talking about in terms of numbers known.Novice collectors hopefully take it in with a grain of salt and just as I did a quite a few years back in the Sports Collector's Digest ads when a certain dealer started grading his glove as Gem Mint.We all have the benefit of the internet(a welp of information at our finger tips)and very precise pictures to gain a perspective on value, rarity,condition and history to use to our benefit when decision making of bidding,Scott

[ebbets55]

Hi All,

My observation - All the descriptions of rare, ultra rare, scarce, etc. came directly from John. Have you noticed they are all the same as in his great book? John kept a meticulous Excel list noting the rarity of each glove at the time, and he was accurate according to his scale or criteria. I'm sure that list was given to both Legendary and jonsstats because either of them would have absolutely no idea how rare a glove is. I believe they are both just using his list when describing the rarity of gloves. Just my two cents. The only way to know the number of gloves of a particular model or endorser is to follow everything. Knowledge is power.

And yes, it is a buyer's market. Prices are cheap historically. I need a third job.

JD

[softball66]

I think there's a lot of good glove education going on with this thread.
I think what Ebbetts is talking about are the glove in John's book that were and are being offered in Legendary. The other gloves being sold out of San Antonio are all listed as "Very Scarce". Friends , Joe Medwick gloves, etc. aren't "very scarce". That's an assertion that has no basis. I don't believe Jonstats is using anything John gave him, IMO.
As to "Good Housekeeping" well, maybe not always, but if we don't help police, who does? Blog sites like Game Used and Net54 have views and discussions about problems and issues in the various hobbies. I read them every day and find them useful.
Enticements? Nothing wrong with enticements if they are factual. Does it go on in other listings. Sure. But this fellow is selling hundreds of gloves, not just five or 10. If you're a newby and buying the glove on that basis, then you may have some bad luck in trying to sell your "very scarce" glove later on. Read what Floodgates writes in his post (above).
The price guide offers a pretty accurate RANGE. Yes, use other information and knowledge that you have, but whatever is available : use it.
I believe we have a lot of new buyers in our vintage glove market (maybe with all the gloves being listed and this is not going to last that long) so let's get them started by seeking information, research like Murph suggests.
I have no axe to grind here with anyone posting and apologize to anyone who might take offense. But I do get upset when a great number of gloves are listed carelessly and hastily.

[stockbuddy]

Hi Guys,
This is a very interesting discussion. Scarcity and rarity do not necessarily seem to reflect the highest prices as reflected in a price guide nor even on the glove market (ebay or elsewhere). Some gloves within my current collection may serve as examples for us to consider. I have a few gloves in my collection that may be nearly one of a kind or perhaps even a one of a kind example in the glove hobby. Is it rare, yes is it scarce yes is it high dollar value, not necessarily. While some gloves in the collection have endorsements that people know about or glove companies that some find highly desirable, there are still other gloves with endorsements and companies that are remotely known about.

My collection reflects the different web styles and different examples of glove styles over the years and I put that as my priority when putting my collection together to illustrate glove evolution over the decades. I do have some gloves that have the well known endorsements and a well known company and I suppose those have a better chance of being listed in a price guide and maybe their supply and demand helps to dictate the trend in the prices paid for such gloves. Some of the gloves I have are not yet listed in a prcie guide and I am sure some of you have experienced the same.

I remember, several years ago a slightly different web variation that I noticed on ebay,(a rather simple no name glove, that I wanted to add to my collection and it would have fit my web styles as being a very slight variation), It sold for 15.00 and I missed the bid.) ugh!! I still do not have that web style in my collection and it was the only one I have ever seen to this day. I am just guessing it was bought by someone to decorate their sons room as the buyer had not bought gloves in their past buying history on ebay. LOL


I have noticed there are a few gloves that have a popular endorsemdnt on the glove and perhaps a desirable company and a cool web or glove style to boot. With that combination, it sometimes would bring strong interest from different collectors due to the "crossover" of interests from the glove hobbists. As a result, it seemed, over the years, that those gloves brought a strong value from bidders.

Regardless of the value of some of the gloves in my collection, I tend to prize the most, the ones that hold a uniqueness about them. Are they rare and scarce, some most definelty. In the past, have they brought the big money, not necessarily.. Will they someday, not sure but I do know some are rarer than hens teeth.

Great topic. Keep it up.
Dave