Can you name one?? One of a kind??

Anything related to gloves (pre-1970) you can post here.

Postby stockbuddy » January 12th, 2008, 2:00 pm

Joe, just noticed, I had left out a word in that last post that centers around the canoe web style :oops: . I consider it a variation of the tunnel loop web. LOL

Dave
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Rare Endorsements

Postby Mike**Mize » January 12th, 2008, 2:22 pm

Joe,
I don't know if you remember the day I called you reporting having turned up a A. J. Reach Willis Hudlin glove. It's now pictured on JD's site. Discoveries like that one always lead to research for me. Who was he? When did he play? How'd he do? All that stuff is a lot of fun, too. I can't imagine there are too many more of those around, if any. :D
Anyone else notice that a Rube Walberg glove popped up on eBay this week?
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Postby BretMan » January 12th, 2008, 3:38 pm

The Rube is on my watch list. Kind of ironic that I saw that glove yesterday, right after reading this thread. Also kind of funny that the seller describes it as a Rube "Waleby".
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The BIG Data Base

Postby softball66 » January 14th, 2008, 8:47 am

As I remarked before, in the early 1990s we produced a "Glove Price Index" and combined a five year period from 1991-1995 into a compilation of 10,500 gloves that were offered for sale by dealers, ads etc. I've still got this data base and will spill out the players I found with only one glove listed. I will give the glove brand where it was available, otherwise it wasn't or couldn't be determined, with a ?. This is a great universe of gloves and the sampling is big enough to warrant determinations. Notice the concentration of these gloves was focused on player model gloves which was the the great thrust of the hobby at that time.
Some additional comments: 1) Ethan Allen had two gloves listed, 2) Guy Bush had 5 gloves and Fred Maguire, three, Hugh Mcucahy, three, Jimmy Outlaw, six. 3) Hutch gloves listed signatures of non major leaguers like Bill Beck, Larry Steinbeck, Johnny Mack and these had one glove only in the total. 4) Nocona had about five or six player models but Nocona was mostly a regional marketer and didn't produce that many gloves in the overall market place. I put an asterisk by the 1950s-40s gloves and did this by memory to separate them from the 1930s and earlier gloves, thinking that might be helpful. Also this list is alphabetical and that should help us find particular player gloves.
NOW THAT BEING SAID, THIS IS A TARGET LIST AND EVERYONE WHO'S ACTIVE ON THIS THREAD NEEDS TO TAKE A LOOK AND SEE WHERE WE MIGHT HAVE TWO, THREE OR FOUR GLOVES THAT HAVE POPPED UP SINCE FOR SOME OF THESE RARE PLAYER MODEL MITTS.
I've got a count list of these gloves per player and that's how Dave Bushing and I helped determined the rarity posts. Anyone care to check the glove guide for catalogued but not found?
Abernathy, Wadley, Arco; Abrams, Cal * Nokona; Aggainis, Harry *, ?
Astroth, Joe*, MacGregor; Azcue, Joe*, Rawlings; Baker, Bill, D&M; Barber, Steve*, Spalding; Beradino, John *, Rawlings; Berringer, Carroll*,
Nokona; Berry, Charlie ?; Biasetti, Hank, Ken Wel; Blaylock, Marv* MacGregor; Bottomley, Jim, Rawlings; Brewer, Tom*, Stall & Dean; Brown, Tom, Ken Wel; Burns, George, Goldsmith; Carnavale, Alan, McKinnon; Chapman, Ben, Spalding; Chiozza, Lou, Goldsmith; Clark, Wadley, Shur Winner; Clough, Gene *, Nokona; Coogan, Dale*, Denkert;
Corbett, Gene*, Goldsmith; Costa, Juan, Hutch; Critz, Hughie, Marathon; Cullenbiine, Ray, Goldsmith; Cullop, Nick, Goldsmith; Dalghren, Babe, ?; Delaney, Bill ?; Ditmer, Jack *, Sonnett; Dunlap, William,?; English, Woody, Wilson; Fernandez, Chico *, True Play; Fletcher, Art ?; Garback, Bob, ?; Garver, Ned *, Wilson, Gelbert, Charlie ?; Gillespie, Paul, Wilson; Gooch, Johnny?; Grabowski, Al?; Grube, Frank, George Washington; Henning, Johnnie, Tru Sport; Hogan, Frank, D&M, Holke, Walter, ?; Holloway, Chuck, Reach; Hopp Johnny *, Joe Charles Sptg. Goods; Irvin, Monte*, Denkert; Krause, Lew, ?; Kuhn Ken, Denkert; Lewis, Buddy, OK Mfg; McGuire, Freddy, Denkert; Mays, Carl, Goldsmith; McFadden, Danny, D&M; McCormick, Mike (1930s McCormick not 1950s pitcher), ?; Melton, Cliff, Goldsmith; Mooty, Jake,?; Morgan, Bobby*, Ken Wel; Nen, Dick; Rawlings; Nicholson, Swish, Westerns; Ogradowski, Bruce, ?; Olson, karl*
Dubow; Padgett, Don, Higgins; Perkins, Cy, Rawlings; Perry, Jim *, Rawlings; Porterfield, Bob*, Pennant; Radatz, Dick*, Sonnett; Reuls, Lou, Hutch; Rixey, Eppa; Goldsmith; Sheeley, Earl, spalding; Shires, Art*, Nokona; Spencer, Tom, Lee; Stobbs, Chuck*, Dubow; Sturdgeon, Bob, D&M; Sullivan, Billy, Goldsmith; Tavener, Jack, Banner; Witek, Mickey, ?;
Wrightstone, Russ, Tyron.
Mike I do remember when you called in your Hudlin glove. Another onsey??
Now, would someone like to count the catalogued only in the price guide? My eyes are very tired.
:roll:
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Postby vintagebrett » January 16th, 2008, 8:44 am

The Nokona Cal Abrams pops up once and awhile on eBay - I've seen a few of them over the past couple of years. I have a Sonnett Radatz but that is only one I've come across = I've had 3 of his Wilson models. From your list, I've personally owned and sold 2 Johnny Hopps - both were Montgomery Ward manufactured. I have a D&M Bob Sturgeon on my site and I know MVALZ picked up a nice one last summer.
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Postby ebbets55 » January 16th, 2008, 6:56 pm

What do I need to be doing in the meantime in preparation of the "3 & Under" Gallery? Who is is compiling the list? I'll be happy to check it. Thanks.

JD
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Postby stockbuddy » January 16th, 2008, 7:13 pm

JD, Did you get that last email I sent you. It was concerning the very rare category. I was hoping I would hear back from you before doing anything with the weird web and glove styles. Just let me know your thoughts.

Dave
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Denkert Joe Dobson

Postby jeneli-john » January 19th, 2008, 5:57 pm

Joe Dobson Denkert Model JD, 3-finger----can't find any reference to this glove in the available literature. One-of-a-kind or not?

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New for moi

Postby softball66 » January 19th, 2008, 8:43 pm

John D, I've scratched my dim memory and don't recall a Dobson glove.
cool. :shock:
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Postby wareagle34 » January 22nd, 2008, 4:39 pm

I mentioned this glove in an earlier thread on favorite gloves, it is my Rawlings G900 Billy Bancroft. Joe I know you have it listed as very rare, and have always wondered if there were any others out there.
Also I have a Play Boy Norm Zauchin model mint condition, and how rare are Joe Sewell gloves?
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Postby vintagebrett » January 24th, 2008, 8:38 am

This thread has been really interesting to read but I'm wondering why some of these gloves end up being rare. Is it because the manufacturers didn't produce that many? Were the players not popular enough that someone would go into the store and want a model endorsed by that player?

I wonder what the number of each glove a company would produce. The Ken-Wel zipperback flusters me the most. There are only a few know examples but Ken-Wel had to have made a bunch of these, right? Gehrig was a pretty popular player, I would think his gloves would be all over the place. But they are not. Any thoughts?
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Postby BretMan » January 24th, 2008, 11:46 am

On the zipper gloves, I always kind of assumed that these gloves might not have been durable enough to last more than a couple seasons. It's easy to imagine the zipper breaking, especially under the wear-and-tear from a lot of game use. Once they broke, they were probably tossed.

Combine that with lower production runs and fewer being sold and you've got yourself an instant rarity!
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Postby ebbets55 » January 24th, 2008, 10:56 pm

Brett & Bret,

Chalk it up to the time they were produced. Don't forget, the depression probably put a damper on high end gloves in the early 30's. I can't imagine many people being able to afford a top of the line model during that time. Sporting goods were probably considered a luxury item or a non-essential item. That's why I find homemade gloves and mitts so fascinating. Some of them have to be depression era. Hey mom, since we can't afford a new glove, will you make me one type of thing.

By the way, Joe and I are putting together the glove rarity list - 3 and under type of thing. Once I get it together, I'll post it for some last thoughts from all you Forum members. We can then create a gallery to display them.

JD
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Postby Centerfield » January 24th, 2008, 11:58 pm

I agree with Jim, the Ken Wel Gehrig was an extremely expensive glove for depression times. I’d like to add my own theory too. I’m sure they were manufactured in some quantity due to Lou’s popularity, but given the economy and the fact that base mitts don’t fly off the shelves like fielder’s gloves (face it, kids don’t want to look silly playing short or left with a mitt), there had to be a stash of mint zipper-backs in a warehouse somewhere. Then comes the war. I believe that they were dismantled and the zippers were used in some capacity for the war effort. Just a theory, but I’ve always thought this was a plausible notion.
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Postby BretMan » January 25th, 2008, 2:04 am

The "depression" angle crossed my mind, too. With these being top-line mitts, fewer of them that cheaper gloves would be sold even in normal years- probably fewer still due to the tight economy. You would imagine that after the depression kicked-in, Ken-Wel would have anticipated the lower sales and scaled back production, producing even fewer yet. The fact that catcher and first base mitts are less abundant than fielder's gloves to begin with would have to add to the scarcity.

The "war effort" theory is an interesting one, and one I hadn't considered. It sounds plausible, given the stories of how goods and materials were salvaged and rationed during the war years.

One more possibility: Perhaps the glove-buying public wasn't overwhelmed with this "gimmick" and that led to lower sales. We glovers might think they're pretty cool today, but maybe the whole zipper concept failed to win the hearts- and dollars- of the consumers of that era.

If the zipper gloves were wildly popular, wouldn't you expect to see the design carried on beyond a few years in the 1930's? Their collectible value and desirability today aside, maybe back then the design was a marketing flop.

I still would speculate that the relative fragility of a zipper on a baseball glove- a tool that is, banged around, bashed, battered, used and abused- took a lot of these out of circulation and into the trash bin of history. Heck, I have zippers break on pants, jackets and luggage fairly often and they do not see anywhere near the abuse of a typical baseball glove!

Inline with that theory, the most expensive gloves are usually bought by the most serious players. The most serious players are those that play the most ball. Their gloves see the most use and the most use leads to the most wear-and-tear.
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