Yet another one bites the dust!

[Mr. Mitt]

Glad you got it... sure you didn't send him the $500 note to scare away potential bidders? Just kidding!

I used to have a Goldsmith Mathewson with the same leather. It's supper soft and extremely porous. It's going to be difficult to clean. You'll likely decide to only dry-clean it (meaning a soft brush with no liquid of any type) after receiving it. If you're able to do more with it, would love to see the results. Even as is, it's pretty nice.

[larjoranj]

I'm confused if the posters in this thread are more concerned with a seller getting hosed or not having a chance to win an item.

Has anyone ever gotten a deal at a flea market or estate sale? Did you tell the seller his glove was underpriced and offer to pay him the full value? Perhaps you told him his best bet was to put it on ebay, that way he could get his best price and everyone would have an equal opportunity? Or maybe there was a price on it you thought was a deal and you pulled out your wallet and said "I'll take it". How is that different than asking a seller on ebay if they have a BIN price in mind and then accepting it knowing it's too low?

[vintagebrett]

We've had this discussion before but I think it boils down to this:

1) An auction is an auction - you wouldn't ask Hunt's or Robert Edwards for best price and expect them to end it for you. Auctions are about bidding.

2) If something comes up on eBay for a Buy It Now and you get a deal, that is great, you were in the right place at the right time.

3) At a flea market, antique show, antique store, etc. the price is set and you can negotiate - just like the Buy It Now, sometimes you get a great deal.

I'm in the camp that hates auctions ending early. eBay is clearly headed towards a Buy It Now standard for all items and this practice just plays into their hands.

[vintagebrett]

Here are some previous discussions we've had about this:

http://www.vintagebaseballgloveforum.co ... php?t=3371

http://www.vintagebaseballgloveforum.co ... php?t=1704

[larjoranj]

There seems to be 2 lines of thought as to why this is unacceptable.

1: It's unfair to take advantage of a seller financially
2: All glovers deserve an equal chance

Regarding # 1. With all due respect, knowingly taking advantage of a seller is the same whether online or in person. We have this box, which I didn't pay attention to because I don't really care much for boxes, but I clicked on the link and see where someone asked if there was a price the seller had in mind. Let's assume the box was worth a crapload ( I have no idea ) and let's assume the buyer knew the asking price was way too low when he bought it. Now, compare that to a glover who finds a mid 20's Winchester in mint condition with the original box at a flea market. The glove has a price tag of 125. The buyer haggles and gets it down to 100, or he doesn't even haggle and just pays the 125 knowing the seller has no clue. No difference in these 2 scenarios. None. This romantic notion that flea market haggling is morally superior is complete hogwash in my humble opinion. It's either OK to take advantage of a seller or it is not.

Regarding # 2, which I suspect is the main reason everybody has their drawers hiked up.

I get the impression that many feel an item initially listed as buy it now is OK but a glove that starts as an auction and switches to buy it now in midstream is the work of satan. As far as giving all bidders an equal chance, one is no better than another. An item listed as buy it now may go in the first few hours before the vast majority have seen it. Where's the sense of fairness in that? What about the guy who works nights or is on a camping trip with his kids? Should all auctions be 7 days to account for those collectors? A nice Pep Young with box was listed with buy it now last week and sold quickly. I have no problem with that, but I'd guess it sold before a lot of people saw it. Is that fair? I guess some will say not.

And this notion of equal chances is bogus anyway. A collector with a fat wallet is always more equal if it goes the distance. Is it fair that a passionate collector of a certain player or team or brand loses out on a glove he's wanted for years to some rich guy who just thinks it's a neat looking glove and is only pocket change to him?

And is it just gloves that make it to ebay that everybody should have a chance at? What about Joe Collector finding a nice glove at an estate sale that doesn't really fit his collection? Is it OK if he checks with his friends first to see if they might want it or is he obligated to put it on ebay for all to participate?

I'm sorry, too many arbitrary rules for me. But I've always been a little slow.

[okdoak]

Agree with Brett 100%. I wish that ebay would at least make the seller let the auction run it's course after the item has been bid on. I used to think that if I put a bid in on an item right away that would be enough to keep the seller from ending it early with a BIN to some jerkoff (who gets to manipulate the auction result! How is that fair to me or other bidders?!), but that's not the case. No way should that be allowed to happen.

[vintagebrett]

I have a slightly different take on what it means "taking advantage" of the seller.

If you go to an antique show, a flea market, etc., there are prices on the item or you ask the seller what their best price is. The SELLER are the ones setting the price and it is up to them to have done their homework, research, etc. to determine the price of the item. However, on the other hand, if I'm set up a show and a dealer comes over to me and asks me for the value of a glove then I let them know what they have, give them a value range and make a fair offer if I'm interested. I'm not absolving the seller on eBay either - they are partial to blame because they are happy with what they are getting when in reality, if they let the auction run to fruition, their profit margin would in most cases be larger.

The difference I see, with having someone make a offer to end an auction is that the buyer is trying to circumvent the auction so they can get a deal. Is this wrong? Well, it depends on your mindset. Yes, I have a problem with it and so do others. Do some people find it acceptable to do this? Absolutely. Does that make them bad people? No, not at all - they just may be fans of Machiavelli. I understand the business aspect and the capitalistic aspect, it's just something I choose not to participate in. It's going to continue to happen and that is just the way it is.

As for the Pep Young, I chose to sell it as a Buy It Now because I needed money for another purchase. I knew the value, determined the price and let the buyers decide if they wanted it or not. Is it fair that not everyone saw it? Well, the early bird gets the worm and it had been listed on my website for a year. But the difference is, I CHOSE for it to be a buy it now, I wasn't coerced or asked to make a deal off eBay to avoid fees, etc.

You're welcome to your opinion that this is no different than asking someone to end an auction as a buy it now. I understand your view point and see where you are coming from, I just don't agree with the practice. An auction is an auction, a sale is a sale - to me they are two distinct things and have different rules.

By the way, if anyone is looking for a high quality Rixpey, I have one on my site.

[Mr. Mitt]

larjoranj, I think you confused my purpose of writing the seller of the Mantle box. I have no problem with his stupidity and being taken advantage of. Life is life, gullible people exist and always will. I have a serious problem with the person who convinced him to end the auction, however. I call that person's ethics into question. Not only is he taking advantage of the seller, but more importantly, he is taking away the opportunity for the rest of the community to win an item honestly. I wrote the seller in hopes of him regretting his actions, financially, and renegging on his deal with the person who convinced his to end his auction. At the very least, the seller now realizes that all calls to end an auction early are attempts to pull the wool over your eyes.

As Brett said, if a person puts a price on an item which he doesn't know the value, whether it be on line or in person, good for the first person who discovers the deal and acts on it. An auction is an auction, however, and once started, should run through completion.

When people wrote me to end one of my auction listings (I haven't auctioned in a long time) I politely suggested that they should bid the same amount they offered to buy the item, it may end for less. Then I posted their username in the listing so they could be identified to the rest of the community. I don't rely on selling via eBay, so I was never afraid of the ramifications of doing this. I wish more people would do the same.

[okdoak]

Larjoranj: Personally I don't care about the seller's financial well being. I do feel his pain because I've been there. That's just the way the mop flops sometimes.
Secondly, you've established that ebay has certain rules (written or unwritten) that will always put some bidders at a disadvantage (the higher the auction goes, the better the chances that a well to do collector will snag it, the fact that the auction ends at a set time when I may be at work, etc) Fair or unfair, they are still the rules of the auction. How can they have no rule as far as letting the auction run the course after the item has been bid on? To me, that's the most unfair and dishonest thing that could happen. If I only have X amount of dollars to spend on my hobby and the other guy has 10X, oh well, poor me, nothing I can do about that. If I have to be at work when the auction ends I put my high bid in right before I head out the door. I have to play by those rules. How is it fair that somebody can just change them to his favor by offering the seller a BIN?!

[larjoranj]

If there have not been bids ebay rules allow a buy it now to be added. If there have been bids they don't allow a buy it now to be added.

I didn't follow the box auction. Were there bids on this box and the seller canceled and relisted with buy it now or did the seller add a buy it now before there were any bids?

[Mr. Mitt]

Is this the way to go, do you become the keeper of all that is good and right

I don't believe that there are people out there who regularly "police" auction listings and notify sellers of an item's approximate value, like what occurred with the Rixey.

I have done this, however, only on items that I was truly interested in. It's been only on occasion and I can count the times I've done this on one hand in my ten years on eBay. I have told the seller that I am truly interested in the item, that I will be bidding on it and not to get discouraged because there will be a flurry of activity near the end. Furthermore, to counter the high likelihood of someone trying to end the listing early, I say that if someone were to try to convince them to end the listing, don't be fooled and let the listing run to fruition. If they want to end the listing, however, please contact me for a counteroffer.

Does this make me a bad person? Am I different from the person trying to get the listing to end early? I don't know, but at least I feel comfortable with myself for doing it. If I win the item, great. If I lose the item because someone outbid me, that's my fault. At least I had control over my winning the item or not and only have myself to blame for not going higher.

[Mr. Mitt]

the higher the auction goes, the better the chances that a well to do collector will snag it

I was watching a Bonhams Auto Auction on tv and was incensed that I was not wealthy enough to purchase the Ferrari I liked. They need to change the rules of the auction so I'm able to!!!

[Mr. Mitt]

And this notion of equal chances is bogus anyway. A collector with a fat wallet is always more equal if it goes the distance. Is it fair that a passionate collector of a certain player or team or brand loses out on a glove he's wanted for years to some rich guy who just thinks it's a neat looking glove and is only pocket change to him?

With all due respect, are you serious?

[okdoak]

Mr. Mitt; I don't think it's fair to be quoted out of context and ignore the intent of the rest of my post.

[Mr. Mitt]

I'm on your side, okdoak, just accentuating the absurdity of the notion you were referencing.