Is collecting endorsed gloves a dead hobby?

[vintagebrett]

Case in point, this Stall & Dean Tris Speaker Speed model. It only brought $187.50 as the top bid. Having been watching gloves for the past 20 years or so, I know for a fact that Speaker gloves are fairly rare and usually bring a huge premium. What is the issue here? Are people not collecting endorsed gloves anymore? Were the pictures too poor and scared off potential bidders? Thoughts?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... K:MEDWX:IT

[Mr. Mitt]

Honestly, Brett, I never saw the Speaker listing until you posted it. I’m shocked at how low it sold for. Speaker endorsed models are super tough to come by, on par with Cobb models in my opinion. The condition on it is rough, but even in the shape it’s in, it should have brought much more. Brings us back to the Ken-Wel 632 Gehrig from a few weeks ago. Stunningly cheap price given prior sales. Some have noted condition with the zipper-back too, but it really wasn’t too shabby. Given the small population, its condition is smack dab in the middle of the pack. Rougher examples have sold for more.

Back to your question about interest in endorsed models being dead. Dormant, but not dead. Everything in life seems to move in cycles, trends come and go and then come back again. In the 20+ years I’ve collected gloves, I’ve seen periods of extremely high interest in endorsed models, as well as slower periods. We just happen to be in one of those slow times. It’s exacerbated by the sluggishness in the economy as well as tax season (don’t know about you, but I’m getting spanked and it’s just going to get worse).

Another reason, I believe, is that the current crop of collectors who focus on endorsed models have saturated collections. If you’re collecting pre-war Hofers and already have a Speaker, no reason to go after another one (unless, perhaps, it’s a different model or an upgrade). I’m confident, though, that in time, a few collectors will once again focus on grouping endorsed models together in their collections. All it takes are two to bid up the price. Perhaps an established collector or two shifts their focus to endorsed gloves (I know my focus has changed many times through the years) and/or a few new guys to the hobby see the challenge and enjoyment going after endorsements.

Though endorsed sales may be down, there are other segments of our niche hobby that are extraordinarily hot. 19th century and turn of the century examples are smoken’ and we’re seeing prices that have never been seen before. This sub-set of the glove hobby crosses over into the larger baseball memorabilia arena with 19th century collectors competing against us. They, and their deep pockets, are not active on endorsed gloves.

That said, the time could not be more opportune to begin snatching up some of these seemingly inexpensive endorsed models, if you’re able. Always buy the undervalued and sell the overvalued. Good rule of thumb, but perhaps only applies to a liquid market. We’re dealing with one of a kind items, in most cases, so selling high doesn’t guarantee ever being able to buy back an item when the tides shift. I do believe, however, that the tides will shift back to endorsed models at some point and those that are snagging them now will be very happy… happy with the challenge of a focused collection of endorsed models, the great gloves themselves, as well as the higher prices they’ll reap down the road when it comes time to trade or sell them.

[Mr. Mitt]

Just realized that Paul put the damn listing in the wrong category! A large portion of his target market didn't even know the glove was available. I feel terrible for him, left at least $500 on the table, in my opinion.

[vintagebrett]

It couldn't have been that hard to find if JD was able to find it. j/k

I think category listing may play a small part but I remember when a Cobb glove was listed in the clothing category a while back and it wasn't overlooked. Probably a lot of factors contributed to the final price but I find it interesting that a Speaker glove could go this cheap. I agree with most of your assessment - if I was looking to move a hard to find endorsed glove at this time, eBay would not be the place I'd be looking for top dollar.

[Mr. Mitt]

It couldn't have been that hard to find if JD was able to find it. j/k.

True... I must be slipping if he found it and I didn't!!!

[cubsrno1]

Posting this for Rickybulldog who is unable to do so at this time.

Jerry, I agree with you 100%. I must add though that a few factors to the low priced Speaker were: 1. The condition and 2. The seller. Now before I continue, I must say it has nothing to do with Paul or his description or anything of that sort. I know Paul and have dealt with him since my earlier years of collecting. He’s a great guy and I have been pleased with the gloves I have received from him. With that said though, Paul is an established collector and people know that. So when big collectors are selling some of their stuff, are we necessarily getting the top tier stuff? Most likely No and to put it into a SOCAL glover’s own terms they are his “Scraps.” I think a lot of that goes into play in a buyers mind. For example, I can hear myself saying “Well, if it isn’t good enough for_____________ (insert collector’s name her) then why would it be good enough for mine?”
To be honest I believe a lot of glovers have that “pioneer” spirit in them where they want to be the first at owning something. It’s probably why new sellers who are non collectors do better at selling their gloves.

Just my 2 cents.

[Mr. Mitt]

Understand where you’re coming from, Ricky, and can’t disagree with your assessment. As far as scraps are concerned, there are a whole lot of scraps out there I’d like to get my hands on!!! Thankfully some new finds surface from time to time, but we’re dealing in an extremely limited market here. If you really want a glove or need a particular endorsement for your collection, sometimes scraps are all you’re able to get. Condition was probably the greatest factor for the low ending price on the Speaker. Beyond that, perhaps limited views, the scraps argument, the economy as well as the current limited interest in endorsed gloves combined to hurt the sale. Really sad for Paul, but then again, I’m ecstatic Jim got such a great deal. Perhaps we should begin selling more here on Brett’s site instead of eBay?

To further Brett’s original argument that endorsed gloves are hurting was this afternoon’s Spalding DiMaggio. With all the DiMaggio gloves out there, there are actually very few pre-war models. I’ve only seen a half dozen, tops, truly pre-war DiMag’s, though I’d gather there are some more tucked away in seldom seen collections. Honestly, this is only the second Spalding DiMaggio I’ve ever encountered with a patch. I sold mine years ago for $1200 to $1300 (I can’t remember exactly). Today’s was a different model in slightly lesser condition and it only brought $315. Are you kidding me!?!?! Post-war DiMaggio’s go for more than that all the time. I’m stunned, really stunned, that there wasn’t more interest in it. But then again, I’m thankful I’m able to scoop up some good deals and will never look a gift horsehide in the mouth!

Way too many smilies, but I am an emotional person...

[vintagebrett]

Perhaps we should begin selling more here on Brett’s site instead of eBay?

Works for me - my fees are a lot more competitive than eBay's.

I get the "scraps" argument to a certain degree but Mr. Mitt is right, there are a lot of "scraps" out there I'd love to have in my collection. There are a lot of endorsed bargains out there - the non-zipper Gehrig someone posted about a month ago was sold for 1350 - this wasn't the Arco block sig Gehrig, this was a high quality mitt with what looked like a nice endorsement. Clean it up and you have yourself a steal. Wish I had more money to play with at this time - stupid mortgage.

[GloveCrazy]

Dang Speaker ... I was watching it and watching it and watching it and then somehow got too busy to bid. Saying I wasn't pleased is an understatement! Man, that glove was right in my wheel-house. Anyway, I agree with what has been said already, especially the dormant and scraps comments, though I appear to be the Sanford and Son of endorsement scrap-collecting recently. I haven't historically been much of an endorsement guy except for Ruth and Gehrig (and Riddle of course), but the prices have taken me into that direction. That Dimaggio glove today was a little bit of an aberration terms of its size and quality, though. I almost bid on the darn thing even though it was a little pricey for a Dimaggio (and he is like kryptonite to me). Things go in cycles and I'm bullish on big names.

[vintagebrett]

Wow, a GloveCrazy sighting! It's been a while. If you really want the glove all you have to do is go down to your friendly neighbor's house - it will be collecting dust in his closet or under the stairs or wherever he's keeping them these days.

[Mr. Mitt]

it will be collecting dust in his closet or under the stairs or wherever he's keeping them these days.

Hahahaha... talk about scraps, I want a few things under those stairs!!!

[jpop43]

Just so its on record...I am interested in any and all $187 Tris Speaker gloves...just so you all know

Speaking of endorsed vs unendorsed gloves...I am still very much in the market for a NICE, ok, unendorsed if necessary , crescent padded fielders glove...I'll wait here by the computer and phone till someone calls.

[GloveCrazy]

Ouch that hurt, Brett, but only because it's true. Sorry for being such a flake guys ... hopefully I'll have a little more time now that my work projects have slowed down considerably. I still visit pretty regulalry but haven't posted as much as I should. As for prying gloves away from my good buddy's clenched fingers, let's just say others seem to be better at it than I. I was better at it in the early days when he needed 1" webs from ultra rare companies, but now he has them ALL.