Another Cobb?

[ebbets55]

When I went digging through my archives for those Rawlings reissues, I came across this Ty Cobb glove auction ad. According to the description, it has ink on the back of the thumb. This would make it another uncategorized Cobb according to my records.

JD

[ebbets55]

I meant uncataloged. Wish we knew who has it.

JD

[Mr. Mitt]

I have a few interesting question for everyone. Questions that I've asked many collectors and have discussed at length with them.

1) Though we, as a collecting community, are trying to determine (the best we can) the population of certain gloves, will this ever be possible given the mentality of glove collectors and the nature of vintage equipment in general?

I believe that we may obtain a rough estimate of gloves in existence, but we'll never accurately determine, even near-exact, population reports. Obviously, the nature of vintage equipment is the first hurdle. What we collect was meant to be used and played with. Because of this, there's no way of knowing how many of a particular glove survived, not to mention how many were actually produced. Simple economics suggest that gloves, compared with other items produced in the past that we now collect (i.e. cards), were made in far fewer quantities. Kids would buy/trade for hundreds of cards which they treasured and saved. On the other hand, gloves were large purchases. They were fortunate to own one and used it until it was falling apart. Sure, we've been lucky enough to find some amazing examples that were minimally used, but more often than not, vintage equipment was used and discarded.

It's because of this, I believe, that the mindset of vintage glove collectors is different than other collectors. Again, the normal comparison is cards. If you peruse card message boards you'll see a considerable difference between them and our humble forum. Participation is extremely low here, by comparison. It's more like a game of poker where what's in our collection is held close to the vest instead of boasting about our finds and conquests. Cards have become a commodity where gloves, given their scarcity, will never be liquid. Here's a great example. A card collector could make a few calls and obtain the extremely desirable T206 Cobb with a Cobb back at any time, as long as he's willing to pay. A glove collector can not do that if he's looking for a Cobb endorsed glove. The most difficult part of obtaining a very rare glove is finding someone who has one. Granted, it's become a bit easier recently given the few collectors who attach their names to gloves on Jim's site, but there are more glove collectors out there, in the shadows, with things we don't know about or have never seen before. A perfect example of this is the other thread showing an old Oregon Trail Auction catalog. Many of those gloves sold years ago have never resurfaced in the hobby. Where are they? They are in collections where owners aren't willing to be outed in the hobby. Again, glove collectors are a completely different animal.

2) This leads me to my second question. Given my opinions above, I've always used the "rule of three" when it comes to glove populations. Whatever the known population of a glove is, I multiply it by three to determine a rough estimate of a truer population. How many times has a low-pop glove come available, and then another one or two immediately followed? Too often. Do any of you use a multiplier? What number is it?

[vintagebrett]

My dad wrote down the final prices of the gloves (and other items) - the Cobb ended at $3860 in this auction - not sure if that is with the 10% BP or not.

[Mr. Mitt]

Since wiring my last post, which is of opinions I've held for years, I've been thinking more about the comparison of our hobby and a more liquid hobby like cards. I truly hope that the results of trying to determine glove population reports does not make us more like them. True population reports will never be accurate for gloves, and I hope it stays that way. I do not want our hobby to become simply a liquid commodity. I began collecting gloves to get away from that with cards in the 80's. Furthermore, I consider my gloves works of art, small sculptures, if you will. I like the fact that there are gloves and collectors out there that aren't known to me. I enjoy perusing old catalogs and finding a model that I've never seen before wondering if one has been located... and perhaps someday I'll be the first to do so. The best part of the hobby is the hunt! Hell, I sold an entire collection in the past (like a few of you have), because the hunt had ended and the desire waned. There's a romanticism that accompanies collecting gloves, much like the romanticism that goes hand in hand with baseball itself. I hope that getting too wound up in how many gloves of a particular model or endorser does not adversely affect what makes this hobby unique and special.

[ebbets55]

Great point. I totally understand. I’m in touch with a lot of glove collectors and a lot of people with inquiries about gloves. Since I have collected passionately for a lot of years, I have a ton of reference material. I try to post information and known glove models for what I always thought of as for the betterment of the hobby. If this is not the consensus, I have absolutely no problem holding my hand close to my vest. It would take up a lot less of my time. I could certainly capitalize on all my inside information, but what fun would that be? I like getting guys together – talking, trading creating friendships. That’s what’s given me so much pleasure over the years. Tell me to stop and I will in a minute. I don’t have the energy to upload 1,000 or so tough glove pictures I’m holding in the queue.

JD

[Mr. Mitt]

You'll get your life back, Jim!!!

I'd hardly say that my opinions are the general consensus of the hobby. I was just voicing some concerns and giving you and others some things to ponder. Nothing more. Carry on...

[murphusa]

Today as in the past I have been a straw buyer for collectors of bats, gloves etc only because they wish to remain anonymous. Some fear for their collection and would never let anyone see what they have. All of my Oregon Trail catalogs have 3 to 5 bidder numbers and names associated with them.

I also do alot of work now with attorneys for estates and divorces. I have been around the Philadelphia area all of my life and I thought I knew everyone who collected this stuff but I was wrong. The active faces in the hobby make up on the most only about 40% of collectors.

And in part of the 60% we don’t see, some don’t even know there is a hobby. They just buy because they think its neat.

[ebbets55]

You are right about the anonymity Murph. I agree with you. However, I believe the true number of people actually participating is more like 5-10%, not 40%, and probably even less. Here’s why.

First of all, look at the number of members on the Forum.

Secondly, like Brett mentioned, many collectors are probably baseball collectors generally and not glove collectors specifically. These guys are probably the ones holding.

Thirdly, we have pictures from just over 50 collectors. At the height of our hobby, there were over 1,000 of us glove collectors (according to our hobby lists and network in the 90’s). Granted some have come and some have gone but the number of people not showing their hand is considerable and getting back to what Jerry said, this is pretty cool. It’s fun not knowing what is out there. When something new pops up it’s very exciting to me. I’m simply trying to document it and centralize it. I’m not trying to create true or accurate population reports. I just want to see pictures of what different models look like. I like the subtle differences. I like to be able to sleuth a faint signature based on similarities to other models. I want to know if there is a glove or a model I can try to obtain one day. It’s nice to want things

JD