Full Web With Scar Lacing

[ebbets55]

Hi All,

Thanks to Joe, we now have our second and third examples of the cool and elusive scar lacing glove (at least that's what I call it). Mike Ellis has the first one, a beauty. I can't find the pics to save my life. What gallery are they in? The last pic is from an old Polaroid.

Anyway, what's the consensus of the purpose for the lacing on the back of the thumb and it can't be for padding. I don't buy it. You don't need padding on the back of a glove and there's no way to reach around past the thumb to get to the palm. No way, no how. Would love to hear some other thoughts.

JD

[Centerfield]

Don't think you have a photo of that one in any of the galleries. It appears only to be shown in his display pictures.

[ebbets55]

I know why now. It's because I don't have good pictures of it. Here are the bad pics though. I need an assistant.

JD

[vintagebrett]

Maybe the purpose was to add padding to the palm area if needed?

[Number9]

It has to be for access to the padding. Looks like there is a stitch line to keep the padding elevated above the wrist, resting on that heel panel. With that stitch in place you can't access the padding from the wrist without cutting open the piping and that stitch line. By using the back side of the glove, you could repair/replace the crescent shaped pad by unlacing the access point and pulling the thumb lining down into the interior palm. Thus gaining access to the heel/thumb pad. The palm and fingers probably had felt padding that was sewn to the lining. Just a theory, but I like it.

Neat glove. I feel like I've seen photos of it before. Was it featured on someone's website a while back?

[stockbuddy]

Hi JD,

Cool glove. Does it have the name of the owner anywhere on it. Someone with the name of frankenstein?? All kidding aside. Very creative and cool glove. Not sure if it the lacing could tighten the area between the index finger and thumb just to hold the glove on the hand a little tighter. Something like the wrist strap would do as well.

Great old glove. Is this one yours or did brother Joe just provide you with a picture of it.

Dave

[ebbets55]

William, I'm not aware of those pictures being on anyone else's site. I took a picture of Mike's cabinet the first time I went to Montana. You probably saw it in the Display Gallery below. Numbers two and three (at the beginning) came from photographs Joe sent me. The last pic I got from eBay many years ago and the resolution wasn't that good (small in size). Rob got it from eBay and traded it to Mike a long time ago. I thought I took a better picture of it at Mike's house but I don't see it.

Here's my theory. After going back and researching some patent information, I think it had to be a weak and unsuccessful attempt to get to the padding on the inside - something the laced heel did much more effectively. I think this particular design predates Charles M. King's 1910 "King Patent", which was in fact designed to get at the padding.

"My invention relates to base ball gloves and pertains more particularly to the arrangement and structure of the padding for same and to the means for separably assembling and uniting the inner and outer parts of the glove. The object of my invention is to produce a base ball finger glove comprising an outer cover and an inner lining nesting therein, between the palm portions of which the padding materials may be carried, adapted to be separably united at the adjacent edges of the wrist and back portions, wherby the lining may be removed from the glove, and access had to the interior thereof for adjustment and repair."

The standard 1" web was patented in 1908 and takes on the common form and shape we all know and love so much. This one with a full web and a crescent type padding most definitely predated the King Patent design and I think Charles King took it one step further and patented it. That's my story and I'm sticking with it unless someone can come up with something better. Would love to here all thoughts.

JD

[Number9]

If Rob owned it at one point then that's probably where I saw it. His website was among my most visited in the late 90's. You know, back when he used to update it

I think you're right about the timing. It was fairly common for asbestos padding to wear out in the crescents. Makes sense for some kind of protective containment to be next in the development cycle followed by a device to access it for repairs. We've got the benefit of looking back and asking "what were they thinking", but, in reality, they really didn't know what they were doing. Hence the wacky experimental features that only lasted a short time until something else was devised.

These crazy features are what I find truly fascinating about glove collecting. Going back and looking at the history and examining the progression of an industry as it tries to figure out how to catch a baseball with a padded gardening glove is riveting.

That's a great cabinet shot!

[ebbets55]

Great observations. I like your line of thinking. I too love the crazy features, especially the ones that didn't take and love to study or sleuth the mysteries of glove evolution and design. That's one of the fun parts of the hobby for me.

JD

P.S. - That Rob line is a classic. Sorry Rob, but I'm rolling.

[softball66]

Great discussions on this topic and thanks to JD for the info on the King patent and quotes from King himself.
And let's pay attention too to Arthur Irwin and the first padded glove at Draper Maynard.
I believe that the late 1800s and early 1900s we had in the gloves very loose and non-cohesive padding made up of asbestos, horsehair, or combinations of other type padding. As the gloves were played, this padding shifted and in some instances bunched up and thinned out, hence the need for adjustments from the heel or by this vertical "unlacer."
Likely the need for more secure padding arrangements were made later, by providing more cohesive and intact padding and by sewing the padding into cotton "sacks". Formed padding if you prefer. This sort of negated King type ideas of adjustments.
Remember, the padding served a two-fold purpose of protecting the hand such as the idea Irwin conceived and to give the arriving ball a relaxed surface to ease the fielding proposition.
The padding grew so cumbersome for some, recall, that infielders like Wagner, Wallace, Bertell, Durocher and others, desiring sensitivity, cut holes in their palms so that they could feel the ball strike their hands. Even Ruth cut a hole in his palm of his G41 (probably idea from Wagner, whom he admired).

[GloveCrazy]

Yep, I owned that one beauty for a short period of time (like three days). I had been trying to talk a collector friend out of a webless glove forever ... making little progress. Once this thing arrived in the mail it was on. It was one of those big pile for big pile trades that are always fun, but it wouldn't have happened without me including that one (darn it). It was my first webless so I have no regrets but I'd rather have written a big ol' check, if you know what I mean.

By the way, thanks for the reminder of how fun it was to maintain a website back in the early days ... a wonderous time before fancy-shmancy digital cameras and easy-to-use picture editing and compression software. A time when you had to program your own websites from scratch and sort of make it up as you went. A time when you had very limited storage capacity which meant you literally had to remove a picture for every one you added. A time when updating pictures to the website took hours (everything took hours). Ah, the glory days of having legitimate reasons for not updating a website ... of course I have no excuses anymore (darn it) except that I prefer the more dynamic nature of the Forum where everyone contributes. Thanks again Brett!

[Number9]

It was all good fun Rob. I learned a lot about gloves that I would never have known existed by clicking through your personal site and the links that were on there. Glory days indeed.

That said, having a community forum where everyone can share their thoughts is pretty amazing too. The kids have it easy!

[ebbets55]

Veteran glover Doug Hammond sent me pics of this scar laced glove. This makes number four. Thanks Doug. These are cool. I have them all residing in the Early Gloves Gallery.

JD

[GloveCrazy]

It's all good, Number9, I didn't mean for it to sound as whiney as it came out. Just thought others may have interest in what it was like updating those things in the earlier days (it's hard to believe it's been more than ten years). The paradox is that I sort of enjoyed updating it more when it was much more laborious. Anyway, there is no reason why more people can't have web sites these days ... so get on it!

Nice glove, Doug, I'll be calling soon with trade offers. Be gentle.